Obamacare

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will you please elaborate upon that?

You will probably be better off just looking it up. But its basically a stone structure that was erected by persons unknown. Inscribed on it are supposedly the ten guidelines for the new world order. Including drastically reducing earths population.

oh yes, the earth can easily slough us off like a scab off a wound.

I sometimes wonder why she hasn't yet

give her time.

And if that 'trouncing' came in part because of redistricting, and the trounced side actually got 1.4 million more votes than the winners, and also kept the president responsible for the bill?
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/0 ... ing-house/
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-1 ... votes.html

I honestly don't know what I'd do. Probably reconsider moving to Canada. I'm not personally impacted by the abortion issue, as I have never been pregnant and am unlikely to become pregnant; it would be easier for me than for the average woman to wait for the pendulum to swing back as stories about unsafe abortions started coming out, and I'm more concerned about the SCOTUS on the abortion issue than congress - but that's dodging your point. I guess I'd be ok with congress voting to defund the theoretical anti-abortion bill, but not so much with them shutting down the entire government (or putting the credit on the line) over it.
Where your metaphor breaks down, though, is that the ACA is a conservative idea from the Clinton era. It strongly appears to me that the only reason that current conservatives don't like it, is because Obama does.


A budget is a moral document. The heart of any of our ('our' in the larger, national sense) disagreements is usually not about whom is more moral, but about which moral values are more important. I do think that a very strong case can be made here, though, that the other side is hypocritical; to bring back the abortion question, it's the side that wants to 'protect babies' by making abortions illegal, at the same time that it wants to defund school lunches and end the Department of Education. And it opposes everything that Obama does, even though half of his actions are re-warmed Republican ideas that they were all for back when there was someone more liberal in office.


I don't think that the filibuster is undemocratic. I do think that the current use of the filibuster is. It's an important tool to keep the minority party from being completely powerless, but there should be some accountability and some sacrifice involved; I dislike Cruz, but at least he did it right.

Last time I checked we just had an election in 2012 and one side lost by over 100 electoral votes and 5 points. And in the last election Democrats in the House got more votes. There is no mandate for teabagger quackery and polls show that this nonsense is not popular. If there was a straight vote in the House this would be over already.

The problem with too many PPACA opponents is that they follow the creationist handbook. Just lie, repeat the lie, and when caught switch to another lie and just keep rolling on. They can abandon 3-4 arguments in short order and never once question why they have so many lemons. Because incurious people don't do their homework.

Last edited by simon_says on 04 Oct 2013, 1:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

the TP fight dirty but squeal like a stuck pig when anybody complains about it.

^I think it may be important to note that the problem here IS the Tea Party - the 30 or so TP Republicans who have hijacked their party, and the rest of the country along with it - not necessarily the R's in general or conservatives in general.

That, and Faux news spreading lies about 'death panels' and such.

But the rest of the Republican party has to share a degree of responsibility for spawning and nurturing the tea party monster and Fox, then trembling on the ground out of fear for it's every tantrum without uttering a word.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

the TP''s behavior at present is playing right into the propaganda of the Russians and the Chinese, about how our system of democracy is really dysfunctional and not a good model to follow or emulate. this is only going to cause the decline of American influence.

It's not the same situation because Affordable Health Care Act is aimed at helping the uninsured find insurance while the anti abortion bill targets women specifically and forces a medical procedure on them (childbirth.)

So? You're still engaging in special pleading, saying something is different when you do it, i.e. hypocrisy.

Comparing healthcare to abortion is fair enough, but you have to remember that both of these issues have been before the Supreme Court already. Abortion is legal, the ACA was found legal with the exception of individual states being required to take federal money to expand Medicaid.

That's no argument at all. Slavery was legal, racial segregation was legal, EO 9066 wasn't even challenged. The fact that something has been deemed legal by the Supremes or other authority does not mean that opposition politicians or anybody else must accept it quietly.

I believe that the Supremes were wrong, and the ACA is illegal -- not just the individual mandate, the whole thing. Nothing in the Constitution grants the government the authority to dictate terms to an entire industry.

All of the issues you cite have been addressed by the Supreme Court, so your comparisons are not exactly making your point very well.



Which sections of the Constitution do you believe forbid the government from doing so? Are you saying that the government shouldn't have regulations for banking and investment firms, food and drug safety, nuclear power, medical standards, occupational safety, the transport of dangerous materials, clean water?