Are libertarians our enemies?

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Yes but even if costs go down people still need money to afford things...and jobs are still the main way to get any substantial form of money. So if there are too few of them its bound to cause problems unless there is some other way.

Sure Lutherans are cool guys but not all churches are Lutheran (also I find Lutheran exorcisms to be really creepy, I saw one, at least the child wasn't harmed though).

There have been gaudy churches like that built lately. Below is a picture of the Basilica of Our Lady of Peace in Yamoussoukro, Africa. It was built in the late 1980s (not by Lutherans). It's officially the largest church in the world and cost $300 million to build. Surely $300 million could have been put to better use in Africa.

Last edited by RetroGamer87 on 23 May 2015, 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yes and if all the roads where privately owned then there could be costs for using them it would just give large companies more power over peoples ability to travel...being public they have to be maintenance and are for the use of everyone seems much more effective.

Aren't you being a little dramatic....oh woe is me, having social responsibilities like having to pay taxes otherwise facing legal penalties is not the same as literally having a gun held to your head or do you get the death penalty for evading taxes where you live?

And what about all the various people that work or contribute in various other ways that think having a social safety network is important? You just seem to like looking down your nose at people and finding whatever you can to justify that despicable behavior. Or do you have some proof that the majority of those who are the loudest about needing such things do not and have not ever contributed and have only ever benefitted from said programs?

So you pay the mercenaries and they provide you with defense? How is that so different from you pay your taxes and the state provides you with defense? Mercenaries could jack up the price if they feel you're in a jam. We could privatize all defense, roads, hospitals, etc but would it be cheaper?

Pay what you want? If we privatized everything you could pay what you want? Sure, it's something like pay TV, if you feel the price is to high, no sale. But if it's something essential like healthcare or national defense there is no pay what you want because you have to buy it. If we privatize everything and then they jack up the price on something you absolutely need, it's no longer pay what you want, it's pay what they want.

The other problem with national defense through mercenaries is that in peace time they could set up a protection racket like the Mafia used to. The Mafia would sell shop owners protection from other gangs but really it was protection from their own gang. A fee paid to not attack them. There was also a "fire insurance" scheme. Which was actually a fee paid for them to not burn down your building.

If you pay mercenaries to protect you from your enemies during wartime, in peacetime you might be paying the same mercenaries to protect you from themselves. In other words you might be paying at the same rate, just for a promise they won't attack you.

And if your nation doesn't have a taxpayer funded military of it's own and relies entirely on this mercenary group for defense, there will be no one to oppose them if they decide to set up a protection racket.

You said before that the difference between buying something privately and getting a tax funded service from the state is that the state can put a gun to your head and force you to pay your taxes. Private companies can't do that? Wrong. If they are a company of mercenaries they can put a gun to your head and force you to pay. Even during peacetime.

Yes, we could privatize roads-- if we wanted to cripple business. Every road would be a toll-road, imagine all the stopping and going to pay tolls, talk about inefficient. Furthermore, state, local, and federal departments of transportation are one of the few highly efficient government entities-- they can't construct on their own so they have to have bids to build projects, this forces construction companies to constantly lower costs of construction so as not to be underbid by a competitor. Granted, if privatized this efficient model would be adopted by said private road companies, but now they'd want their 10% cut on top of said cost.

Then add in that said companies would eventually consolidate (if not immediately) and use this new power to threaten other companies: Hey UPS, you wanna use our roads next year you're gonna have to pay an extra 100 million surcharge. Why? Because you have no choice, we own your roads and thus your business that's why. You think UPS is gonna eat the cost, hells no, that's getting dropped on the consumer as well.

Net result of privatizing roads: inefficient travel, consolidation of power among a few wealthy individuals, and more cost to the average citizen. Sign me up for that one and give me a Darwin award while you're at it.

Since privatization seems the hot topic here, listen to this story. In America, the so called land of the free, we have a lot of private prisons. When they are built, the government guarantees a minimum occupancy. Sounds good, doesn't it. Well, to continue, we've had documented cases of judges sending innocent people to prison to get a kickback. These same prisons are paid for the care of inmates with our tax money. Their profit comes out of our tax money. What do they do? They turn around and use that (our) money to lobby Congress and legislatures to create more laws to add to the prison population. There have been cases where private prisons 'forget' to release prisoners for as long as possible to get the per diem cost of housing the prisoner. They then can make sweetheart deals with businesses for dirt cheap labor, thus taking jobs away from those that need them. All this in a so called democracy. Imagine if it was all private for everything and everybody. We would have no controls without government...

well stated

Thanks.

The people who live outside of society does so risking being arrested and put in jail.

Asking people to hurt themselves instead of me is perfectly reasonable.

And look where this representation lead you! It's sh*****g all over the constitution that you once waved so proudly. No thanks, I'd rather decide for myself what I do on my own land.

Look into the difference between equality of outcome and equality of opportunity, they are two different things. Do you think that everyone should live equally, even if one person has worked harder than another?

So telling people to not steal from me is being a selfish prick? Alright, I'll just write that down on my list of stupid things heard today.

What Africa does is Africa's business, I can't speak for them. I don't know where they got the money to build that church. Sadly, since it's Africa, I wouldn't be surprised that you are right about some of them spending their money that was supposed to go to one thing on something else. I would still like to say that I don't believe what is happening in African churches is that related to where the money from western charities are going, but I may very well be wrong.

Always check who you're giving your money to, you might just be supporting genocide!

No it isn't. It granted to you by the state in return for paying taxes and obeying the law.

Also, please avoid personal attacks such as telling other users to kill themselves and calling them stupid. You will be banned if you cannot treat other users with respect and decency.