WAS HITLER AUTISTIC?

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Your logic relies on the usage of the term "maniac", which is really subjective and presumes that people in the Nazi party would see him as a maniac. Obviously they didn't. You also assume that if you're AS, you're going to be "disabled", at least to a sufficient extent that you won't be successful as a head of state or political figure. This assumption is incorrect. An AS who has developed significant social skills or has learned one particular effective use of them will be able to get a long way, especially if the AS person is able to identify something that the group really needs, or wants to hear. You are correct, we do have to compare Hitler with his peers, so here's the thing: it's 1920s-1930s Germany, economy and national pride in shambles after the Great War, especially with Germany being made to pay reparations for what happened during the war. People wanted a way out, someone to point the finger at... ooh look! Point the finger at the Jews, the gays, the "weak", etc.. Hitler could've easily just parroted and magnified what was already a prevailing sentiment, and like a leader gathered the sentiments of the masses and condensed them and focused them into a cohesive, personified force.

Part of the logic behind an AS involvement in Hitler, is that if AS really is the set of attributes of the "alpha male", then Aspies are actually well-positioned to be authoritative figures. Instinctively we are the "little professors" after all. By our nature, we don't hesitate to assert our dominance in areas of knowledge that we feel we know... even when we actually don't. NTs by comparison are sheep who just need a shepherd to guide them around. If Hitler really were Aspie, his being a leader is actually consistent with being AS.

That being said, all people are products of their genetics and their upbringing. Genetics can make you have a natural gravitation towards this kind of power, but upbringing will determine whether you end up like Mother Teresa or Pol Pot. Alternatively you can adapt to being more NT-like, and shun it all, although since this isn't natural to you, there will be side effects, as there will always be when you must suppress yourself.

Does this all prove that Hitler was AS? No. It can only be considered consistent, and not proof, because alternative hypotheses exist that can explain Hitler without requiring that he be AS, as Ana is pointing out.

This is very inspiring.

Wow, I didn't realize that NTs have an exclusive claim to being "successful", making and reaching goals, and getting up after being punched in the stomach.

Do you really have such a negative impression of your own kind??

It's not "negative". It's different. I will be honest and say my priorities are completely different than most.
You are the one who called it negative.

Even if they're different and not negative, I still wouldn't agree with the statement that they are trademarks of NTs. You're certainly free not to make goals and not to reach them if that's what you want, but there's nothing intrinsic about AS that makes you or anyone else like that, regardless of whether it's positive or negative.

When we pursue our own special interests, our goal is to learn and enjoy all we can about that interest. I think that for the vast majority of us, we meet that goal.

I know...and the reason he's despised while much smarter & more vile dictators got off scot free was--again--because he was stupid enough to show people who he really was, and make some very bad calculations in terms of war. I hate to bring it to ya...but the guy was basically a third-rate dictator.

If he had been Autistic, he wouldn't have effed up his calculations in war so badly; we kinda excel at strategy and things like that, my good man.

But that's just your opinion. Maybe people with autism aren't as "driven" as others and it's because their neurology is different. They are happier doing other things, are less ambitious and willing to play the games it takes to rise to the top and that is why others consider them to be "disabled" because others think it's indulgent to cater to anyone that deviates from the norm. The norm being ambition, goals, social climbing, status, to keep pushing when people are saying it's not right, like with the putsch. Hitler and the Nazis could have been stopped then, afterwards they became more powerful. It sounds like typical NTism. I have seen it lots of times. It's how sociopaths are able to manipulate their way into positions of power. They know exactly what to say to manipulate public sentiment, spoon feed people's fears, play on people's emotions, con people. That's pretty much what the Nazis did. They failed at diplomacy and negotiation. Instead, they chose barbaric means and methods and everyone thought it was the only option because they had been manipulated into believing fallacies and lies.

No, it's not just my opinion. Sure, AS and NT neurologies are different, but that difference does not extend to differences in whether a person has goals or not. Different neurologies extend to differing ways of meeting those goals, but in the end we still have goals. As AS we don't like going through the social hoops that NTs do, we go by our own methods, but we are still goal-driven and we still strive to meet those goals. Ambition and goals are universal, because at their core they are based on wants and desires, which everybody has, regardless of neurology. The social norm includes social climbing and social status, yes, but ambition and goals are not included as exclusively social in scope. They are basic and primal, hence everybody has them.

Are you telling me that you are entirely without ambition, goals, wants and desires? They make you a human being. They don't make you NT or AS, nor are they the domain of solely NTs or solely AS folks.

Maybe for you but certainly not for everyone. If you look at the data, you can see for yourself that autism doesn't necessarily correlate with ambition and drive, not that it really matters that much because ambition and drive in themselves are not necessarily "good things". It depends on what you value and what NTs should understand is not everyone has the same values. We don't all want the same things and to some of us being at the top of the social heap isn't that important and not worth the effort. To Hitler, as to politicians as a group, it's very important. The most important thing of all.
Look at the famous autistic people. Are they known for being adept politicians, or, are they reknown for other reasons, like, what they have accomplished. Maybe they are known for their inventions or formulas? How many of them are known for being experts at climbing the corporate ladder which is just as grueling as being a politician? I am not going to pretend that AS creates these ruthless, sinister dictators because the evidence doesn't point to that.
Besides these there are plenty of people with autism who are not that interested in making goals and continuing on an insidious course of action that will mean doom for millions of people. So, I stand behind my statement in a very positive light.

Hitler DID kind of keep it a secret. He wrote a book that probably ONLY his followers read, and tried to make everyone believe that he just didn't want the people he didn't like in Germany. Not all were Jewish! He SUCCEEDED there! LATER, he COULDN'T keep it a secret! It was IMPOSSIBLE! WHY?!?!? Because he wanted his followers to help him,. One person could NEVER do what he wanted to, but a few million COULD. So the revelation was required. That became even more necessary as he tried to do it in other countries. STILL, certain secrets were kept so even some people that REALLY had jewish friends revealed them so THEY wouldn't be rounded up. As I said, Jewish people were NOT the only ones. BTW his book is SO clear on his desires that even TODAY some countries won't even allow you to POSSESS IT!

And YEAH, he was a third rate dictator. I have always credited him with being the best informant and spy the allies could ever have. He made SURE the allies knew what he was doing. Had they done it with DES, or rjindael, they probably would have succeeded. But they used the enigma, so tradition coupled with hittlers need to micromanage helped win WWII!

You are right, ambition and drive are not "good things", but neither are they "bad things". They just are. You are also correct that NTs need to understand that people don't all have the same values and goals.

But you are incorrect in thinking that people on the spectrum have no goals at all. The vast majority of people on WP have values and goals, so your insistence that my argument is "just me" is an utter fallacy. Even if a person on WP wants to feel better and not be depressed, that is still a goal of that person, and that person is certainly going to try to reach that goal. That's ambition and drive right there. It's just that those values and goals might not be the same as an NT's values and goals. And you just said yourself in the quote above, that there is no correlation between having autism and having or lacking ambition/drive. Then how can you make the statement that having and achieving goals are "NT trademarks"? Your reasoning doesn't make logical sense. You're either on the spectrum or you aren't. You either have ambition or you don't. If there is no correlation (direct or inverse) between one of the former and one of the latter, you cannot logically have a correlation among any of the other possibilities.

What seems to be going on is that you seem to be linking ambition and drive, with achievement of social status. That is not part of the definition of ambition and drive. Ambition is simply a willingness to meet a goal. There is no implication of what kind of goal that is. Oftentimes, the goal can be social in nature (e.g. wealth, fame), but it's not always like that. For example, I have a goal of cleaning up my apartment. The goal is not social in nature because nobody visits me and therefore the cleanliness of my apartment has no bearing whatsoever on what people think of me, nor does the cleanliness affect my own perception of me. I clean it because in its current state I can no longer find stuff! If I am ready and willing to clean up my apartment, I am showing ambition as I am motivated towards reaching that goal. Ambition does not necessarily have anything to do with anything social, or anything that NTs would be intrinsically more inclined to have.

Are you sure that you're not just trying to use ASD as an excuse not to have any goals, let alone not to reach any of them? That's what it's starting to look like to me... because I can "look at the data" and the data doesn't agree with your reasoning. The reality is that people, NT and AS alike, have goals, and actively strive to meet those goals on a daily basis, and people who think they have no goals and do not strive towards those goals are either misunderstanding themselves, or have self-esteem issues. Really, having goals is nothing more than having a want, and having wants is as natural and basic as eating and breathing. On the day you're born, you'll have a goal of eating food. Everybody has goals. Your insistence that AS folks with goals are the exception rather than the rule is not based on reality, but rather on wishful thinking.

I meant Hitleresque goals like getting out of jail and taking over Germany. How many autistics have goals such as that? He was a ruthless person who decided on and reached the kind of goals most autistics wouldn't bother making. That is precisely why I doubt he had AS. He was a run of the mill sociopath feeding the fears of the populous and refused to compromise. His top officials were most likely sociopathic as well.
As far as people on WP having values, I never typed anyone here is lacking them. They might have different values and find it hard finding acceptance because of that.
I've always believed there's a pecking order in values just like there is in NTs.
Isn't it true that most autistics are more interested in what they can do and create and obtaining recognition for that, not so much fame as the charismatic, manipulative dictator with an unwavering cult of personality. Something about such a person is anti autistic.

This topic will not go away. I got about 71,000 results when I searched Google for Hitler + Asperger, and I know about one book where Hitler being asperger is the central topic. So this is discussed.

Ooo - I understand that you find it difficult to accept that Hitler might be asperger, but your arguments are weak. Your description of the background of "Mein Kampf" is simplistic and partly misleading. You suggest I should read more. I will suggest you read Bullock's account of why Hitler wrote it.

I do not argue, that because Hitler was asperger he was antisemitic. He picked up antisemitism in the early 20th century, when his opinions was created. However, he had a friendly relation to jews until he was in his early twenties, so historians have wondered why he later developed not only antisemitism, but a hate of jews, blaming them for Germany's defeat in World War One. His asperger may have led him to believe in such a simplistic explanation instead of dealing with the much more complex political issues.

You cannot argue, that people with asperger do not have ambitions and drive to reach high positions. Some may even have more drive, because the position can give them the contact to other and confirmation of themselves that other people more easily can get from their family and friends. And which Hitler got from the party and his close circle. However, it is mostly people who do not succeed, who have not had ambitions or who have given up, who get to a psychiatrist and get a diagnose as asperger. Those who are ambitious and succesful outwards, will only rarely be considered an asperger.

Last to Ooo - Hitler did not behave as people normally did in the first half of the twentieth century. A large number of people who met him, commented on his odd behavior. Even some of those closest to him did it. This is documented by Langer, and I have earlier described how his descriptions fit very well with someone with asperger.

Excuse me? I'm probably one of the most ambitious and motivated people you'll ever meet; and I am Autistic w/ Asperger's.

Aspies are in my ayes divided like this:

Good: Bill Gates, Bram Cohen, Henrik Ibsen (though he was kinda misantrophic and withdrawn, and there's no wonder why people called him "The Lion").

Bad: Hitler

It's not simplistic at all. I've read about Mein Kampf and it's known it was written for money so it makes sense it would have antisemitism in it because there was wide spread anti semitism at the time and people would be more inclined to buy an anti semitic book. I wonder how many other anti semitic publications were being distributed at the time? Engineer, you would have to do an in depth study to know for sure. This was before politically correctness and there was a lot of prejudice all over Europe against people of different ethnicities. How do you connect this with autism? It was widespread.
Hitler was more manic/depressive or Schizoaffective than Asperger's but we can't know for sure because he's been dead for years. Do a search on Schizoaffective/Hitler or bipolar/Hitler and see what you get. There's all sorts of speculation about him. Did you know he also had syphillis and arsenic poisoning? Parkinsons, too. Who knows what else? Maybe he sniffed paint fumes when no one was looking and that's why he was odd. He was an amphetamine addict, maybe that explains his odd behaviour??? See, you haven't taken everything into account. Neither have other speculators which means you cannot possibly be accurate in your diagnosis. Can you tell me for sure his odd behaviour wasn't a result of amphetamine addiction? Um. that's not quiet the same as Asperger's. You cannot prove any of this.
Another thing, Engineer, people who have reached the top in their fields rarely want to be diagnosed with anything. Which makes you wonder if they have anything to be diagnosed with? Are they disabled if they reach the top in their field? Why would someone say they are? You have to look at the empirical evidence. What is the person doing? What have they achieved? Why would they need to be labeled "disordered" if they are happy with their lives and achieved the highest rank? Maybe this is why the failed are the ones who seek the diagnosis and not the successful? The reason they are having the failures is because of the disorder and the successful have made it because they don't have one?
Does Hitler really need a label (besides leader of a barbaric regime)? His political career was successful. He was not hindered in any way. You cannot convince me that someone who is clever enough to head a movement that takes over an entire nation has an autistic disorder. They have to have some sort of theory of mind to do that. Okay, so Hitler was quiet for a while in his youth, had no friends in Munich. Big deal? How long did that last? Maybe it happens to lots of people? Does it mean they have a disorder of some kind? It's not that simple.
Don't forget personality disorders; Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Antisocial Personality Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder. What if he had one of those?
There's no way to know for sure without a face to face interview with an Autism Spectrum Disorder Specialist.