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Rainbow_Belle
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21 Jan 2020, 1:50 am

I would rather be an NT with a physical disability than having Aspergers and no physical disability. The person in wheel chair gets sympathy, us Aspies are told to man up or get over it! Aspies/Autistics have very high rates of unemployment and there is little or no help for people with Autism. The right wingers do not care about the disabled or Autistic rights, we need a Left wing government that can implement the social changes when they get into power.



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21 Jan 2020, 1:57 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
The truth is that we're likely nearly always better learning to *better ourselves*.

Yes we are. Or did you mean only people on the right?

I think not only left wingers want better future, just like not only right wingers want to better themselves.
So we all want to better ourselves for the better future, don't we?


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21 Jan 2020, 2:48 am

as much as i detest our armed society, i wish the democrats would just stop NOW with the gun activism, as horrible as that sounds, because their greater need is just to get elected at all levels and form a critical mass in the first place, for getting progressive things including gun control, done. but now is not the time for them to throw so much energy and attention into it, the amuuurican people have not evolved sufficient for that politic to become a given reality. but, there are still enough working class folk who are pining for and would vote en masse for, a reliably humane and affordable health care regime [that only the democrats care about] if there were no gun control strings attached to it.



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21 Jan 2020, 3:36 am

auntblabby wrote:
as much as i detest our armed society, i wish the democrats would just stop NOW with the gun activism, as horrible as that sounds, because their greater need is just to get elected at all levels and form a critical mass in the first place, for getting progressive things including gun control, done. but now is not the time for them to throw so much energy and attention into it, the amuuurican people have not evolved sufficient for that politic to become a given reality. but, there are still enough working class folk who are pining for and would vote en masse for, a reliably humane and affordable health care regime [that only the democrats care about] if there were no gun control strings attached to it.


So what are the Americans who start to get sick of all the mass shootings supposed to look for answers? Ignore it as not relevant where ideas of arming teachers is an intelligent answer?


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21 Jan 2020, 4:05 am

Bradleigh wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
as much as i detest our armed society, i wish the democrats would just stop NOW with the gun activism, as horrible as that sounds, because their greater need is just to get elected at all levels and form a critical mass in the first place, for getting progressive things including gun control, done. but now is not the time for them to throw so much energy and attention into it, the amuuurican people have not evolved sufficient for that politic to become a given reality. but, there are still enough working class folk who are pining for and would vote en masse for, a reliably humane and affordable health care regime [that only the democrats care about] if there were no gun control strings attached to it.


So what are the Americans who start to get sick of all the mass shootings supposed to look for answers? Ignore it as not relevant where ideas of arming teachers is an intelligent answer?

i know that sounds awful and IS awful but politics [per Bismarck] is the art of the possible, the 2nd best, it is a pragmatic thing of what can be achieved NOW. we need to get a critical mass of democrats in the first place, securely in office, enough to where the opponents of progressive things [including gun control] are overwhelmed. that is the only way we can get this. we have to overcome decades of GOP entrenchment at state and local levels first. so far [at least] we've been able to stop school districts from mandating that all their teachers arm themselves. i can't think of a DUMBER idea than making teachers pack heat.



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22 Jan 2020, 2:38 am

auntblabby wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
as much as i detest our armed society, i wish the democrats would just stop NOW with the gun activism, as horrible as that sounds, because their greater need is just to get elected at all levels and form a critical mass in the first place, for getting progressive things including gun control, done. but now is not the time for them to throw so much energy and attention into it, the amuuurican people have not evolved sufficient for that politic to become a given reality. but, there are still enough working class folk who are pining for and would vote en masse for, a reliably humane and affordable health care regime [that only the democrats care about] if there were no gun control strings attached to it.
So what are the Americans who start to get sick of all the mass shootings supposed to look for answers? Ignore it as not relevant where ideas of arming teachers is an intelligent answer?
i know that sounds awful and IS awful but politics [per Bismarck] is the art of the possible, the 2nd best, it is a pragmatic thing of what can be achieved NOW. we need to get a critical mass of democrats in the first place, securely in office, enough to where the opponents of progressive things [including gun control] are overwhelmed. that is the only way we can get this. we have to overcome decades of GOP entrenchment at state and local levels first. so far [at least] we've been able to stop school districts from mandating that all their teachers arm themselves. i can't think of a DUMBER idea than making teachers pack heat.

I must agree: politics is the realm of Machiavelli and you won't survive there on ideals of the better world alone. In democracy, you have to be a performer for the majority of voters in order to win.
We're not living in the ideal world.


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Bradleigh
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22 Jan 2020, 4:21 am

I am not saying that playing smart is not the correct thing to do, trying to avoid controversial subjects. Just that compared to many of us in countries where the gun debate is over in terms of letting anyone and everyone have them, it honestly looks ridiculous. And also it runs a risk of playing politics with lives, where the politicians are doing what is better for themselves rather than innocent lives. Not even wanting an appearance of what they consider as controversial subjects, which could not bode well if afraid of actually bringing any change.


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22 Jan 2020, 4:28 am

Bradleigh wrote:
I am not saying that playing smart is not the correct thing to do, trying to avoid controversial subjects. Just that compared to many of us in countries where the gun debate is over in terms of letting anyone and everyone have them, it honestly looks ridiculous. And also it runs a risk of playing politics with lives, where the politicians are doing what is better for themselves rather than innocent lives. Not even wanting an appearance of what they consider as controversial subjects, which could not bode well if afraid of actually bringing any change.

what the left is doing now is not any more helpful. there is no substitute for getting enough democrats securely in office, to effect progressive positive change such as gun control. even if bernie wins, with the congress dominated by obstructionist fascist dinosaurs, nothing good will pass. the only way is if the GOP is routed for the ages. only then will the good and long-deferred necessary stuff be allowed to happen.



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22 Jan 2020, 6:58 am

Wouldn't it be necessary to get rid of all the GOP voters for the GOP to be dead? It's ultimately going to be those people that the enforcers come up against. How can a thing be dead if a significant portion of a population believe in it?


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magz
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22 Jan 2020, 6:59 am

What is GOP?


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22 Jan 2020, 7:41 am

magz wrote:
What is GOP?

stands for Grand Old Party, or Greedy Oligarchic Pachyderms [their symbol is the elephant], and they are all about greed [they call it "conservatism"] which even they do not deny, neither do they deny these days, their oligarchic designs on the rest of us. oh sure, they dress the greed up as "prosperity gospel" [which is not what the good book says we should be doing] and "opportunity" [for GOPers to rob the rest of us all the more]. they are a party, who in the words of john kenneth galbraith, "is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." our current corrupt excuse for a chief executive is a GOPer, nominally.



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22 Jan 2020, 7:50 am

Well, I have a different perspective of remembering our not working socialism and old people voting to virtually bring it back, just without the Soviets and with the church in power.
Anyway, whichever party gets most votes, that's how democracy works. Most of the known alternatives for democracy are not great, either.
Politics is dirty.


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22 Jan 2020, 8:03 am

obscenely dirty, and i hate the hell out of it and wish i didn't have to pay attention to it, but if i don't vote i can't complain, so i vote repeatedly against the GOP as they never pretended to address working class concerns other than appealing to our worst instincts [racism]. in the words of president LBJ, "If you can convince the lowest white man that he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." that is the appeal of the present white house crook, in a nutshell.



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22 Jan 2020, 8:11 am

The Bible I read tells me to take care of the orphan, the widow and the sick. But that if a man won't work, he shouldn't eat. I also believe that if a homeless person is begging on the street, I should help and I do. I also really enjoy helping street performers, etc... It takes a lot to stand outside all day and work or beg for your keep. They are working, providing a service, entertainment, or something that makes the perceptions of another more enjoyable. The vast majority of poor people don't get out and ask personally for assistance. They vote so that they can force another to take care of them. There is no honor in that. They are not even willing to expend the energy to personally ask for help, face to face with another individual. They fill out forms and force people.

If I am able bodied, sitting inside of a home complaining that everyone who professes to believe in the Bible but isn't taking care of me is a hypocrite. That's a scam and immoral. Poverty isn't an institution, a movement, a job. It's a state of being. I've been poor. It's a circumstance and it required my participation to change it.

I think Democrats who use 'selfishness' as the label for GOP'ers, refuse to take into consideration that the GOP'ers simply cannot fathom what it would take to recline into a position of expectations, with regard to the wealth of others.
Meaning, " I'm poor. You are not. Give me what you have or you are greedy and don't really believe in God..." Baffling, to me anyway.


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22 Jan 2020, 11:58 am

magz wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
The truth is that we're likely nearly always better learning to *better ourselves*.

Yes we are. Or did you mean only people on the right?

I think not only left wingers want better future, just like not only right wingers want to better themselves.
So we all want to better ourselves for the better future, don't we?

Negative thinking, negative habits are hard to change.

It's enticing to blame others for our faults, so we can stick to our ways.

Change is hard.

Likely, most people resist positive change and stick to their ways.

This is why "the right" supports workfare, to lift people out of the "welfare trap".


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Brehus
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22 Jan 2020, 5:11 pm

AlanMooresBeard wrote:
Brehus wrote:
I support universal healthcare and many other things the left support but unfortunately they keep running gun grabbers so I can not vote for the left.


Why is gun ownership so important to you?

It is no different then people who will not vote right because many GOP politicians are against the right to choose. The right to choose is not important to me either way but I fully understand why someone who will not vote for a right candidate because it is important to them

The constitution is just important to me I believe that if someone wants to change the constitution they need to amend the consituation instead of keep making law after law trying to weaken a constitutional right.


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Last edited by Brehus on 22 Jan 2020, 5:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.