Reply personal responsibility is a crock: here is why

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Fishing is pretty simple, even someone with low intelligence can do it. Even little kids can do it. I used to fish with my grandfather on his land and it was lot of fun and I enjoyed watching my cousins do it and my grandfather.

I think this is a bad example to use as an analogy because fishing is so simple. Only thing you need is poles and bait and fish food to throw in the pond to lure them.

I think you're misreading me.

I don't think candidates should get a probation period.

I think candidates should have to do a pen and paper maths test (sums)/oral maths test without calculator in order to get a shop job. During the interview period. Stuff like 'if this is in the sale at 10% off, that is in the sale at 20% off and the customer buys both, what would it cost' or 'if a customer gives you a £20 to buy something worth £7.99, what change should you give them'.

I think another way around this would be that foundation level maths focuses on arithmetic and raise anything that requires hard maths to asking the candidate for a GCSE B. Nobody in foundation maths can get a B as it's capped at a C.

My opinion:

Based upon the culture of the west especially the usa and what is expected of you and what employers expect including Fnord and based upon the bureau of labor stats and based upon the characteristics of autistics I think with some exceptions autistics are to disabled to be employed.

What working class? Why can’t there just be people, all of whom have the right to life and freedom? If you don’t like how one employer treats you, then quit. Go to his competitor, say you want better treatment, and...oh, by the way, this is how he makes a better product with less overhead. And here is some focus group data we were using to design a new product. Might wanna look at that. Why do people have to identify with some victim class if they know they deserve better treatment, better pay?

Each individual is ultimately self-employed. You have an implicit contract with a business to provide goods and services at a price. If the business you serve doesn’t hold up their end of the bargain, you say it was a pleasure doing business with them but you think it’s time to go a different direction. Why is this so hard? If your boss sucks, fire him!

Not everyone has money under capitalism.

If you don't have money, how are you supposed to look after your loved ones who can't work?

How are you meant to pay for your kids' education if you don't have enough money to get by day to day?

So they become less educated and it continues from one generation to the next. This is the benefit of a state education system or charity schools.

If money is shared out equally, that isn't capitalism.

Heck it's not even a form of communism we've tried yet. It's utopia.

Ok, but none of that makes any sense. Nobody is ever entitled to have any money at all, ever. Everyone is free to pursue money, however. The answer to your first question is someone else, assuming money is the real issue. There are other ways to provide care besides throwing money at them. You are not the only loved one your loved ones have, nor are you the only person who can take care of someone else. And there is never anything wrong with charitable giving IF YOU WANT TO GIVE.

Education? Why do we even need the state to provide education? Lots of people homeschool. You get to control the pace and content of what is taught. If you are concerned that what they are learning is morally objectionable, or if political or other bias is a problem, or if you want a religious education, or...whatever, you have a private option or you can just DIY. Compulsory attendance and state schools are the worst thing to happen to education.

Honestly, public education isn’t all that bad. If you pay taxes, then the benefits exceed the cost, I guess. The problem is saying that public education is free education. If anything is free, it lacks value. If education has no value, why would anyone want it? And thus you have the root cause of truancy and failing schools. Try actually WORKING in public schools.

In also worked in a Catholic school. While the school catered to affluent Catholics, it was an excellent school. While it competed with other private schools, it was excellent. With declining numbers of Catholics, their focus shifted to attracting athletes from public schools. By taking a more charitable direction, it became in essence a free school and attracted more troubled kids and parents. Not wanting to deal with ill behaved and undisciplined kids, Catholic parents moved their kids to the competing private school. While I worked there, policies and procedures were almost identical to what I experienced in public schools, except without an armed resource officer. I will say their academic standards far exceeded public school standards, the special needs programs were outstanding. The city school by comparison was just a holding tank for special needs, and the instructors had less self control than the kids. There no doubt is some value in charity and public schools, but often the value is perceived more by those supporting (willingly) those programs—certainly not those receiving benefits. My successes as a public school teacher were more that students followed my advice and put time and effort into their own education rather than wait on us to do everything for them. I spent the rest of my time fighting apathy from parents.

My mum's worked in state schools most of her working life.

There's a difference between middle class schools & working class ones.

Even when both are provided by the state.

I attended a middle class school, a working class school and a COE school for upper middle class children. All state funded.

I think it's due to parents having the free time available to take kids to museums and libraries. And the smarts to help with their homework. And the work ethic to encourage them to work/anti-crime ethic to encourage them not to break the law and that there's another way to get ahead.

Also in a purely capitalist society? Why would there be any state schooling funded by taxes? You'd be going back to Victorian times where the only schools available were charity schools (dependent on those who want to provide them, not necessarily there) or paid for by parents.

Kind of works if you want to go majorly collectivist (middle ages-18th century style) with father teaching son how to work the farm, mother teaching daughter how to feed the cows and tend the home, some families focusing on stuff like making the flour etc but we've progressed since that point. Kids should be learning more than parents can provide. That way they can have the freedom to do different jobs in the future. And do you really think that home schooling success doesn't depend on the parents? Whether your parents are smart or not or smart in all fields or not, isn't your fault.

KT67 what you need to understand about American culture is this. Our American culture evolved from settlers who came here to colonize and build on their own what America is today over the centuries. One of the American ethos is rugged individualism. The greatest thing one can do is not doing what one can do for others and the community but being able to succeed in an opportunist. In other words, everyone is personally responsible for themselves and mine. There is no we but I.

There is a total sense of personal responsibility as I succeed or fail on my own merits but there is no sense of social responsibility at all. No obligation to the community or society at large. In fact, some will say that there is no society or community at all. This is what you are dealing with and AngelRho with Randian Objectivism takes this to its conclusion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_responsibility

If you really want to read something interesting by Dr. Berman who like me is a declinist read this. It will show you why the USA is dying slowly by a 1000 paper cuts.

https://morrisberman.blogspot.com/2008/ ... rican.html

In the USA and more individualistic nations and culture one is expected to figure things out himself. In other words, in this sort of culture not only are you not owed help as they would call it in fact it is rude and a social faux paus to even ask. This is what Aspies and other disabled are fundamentally dealing with and why I stand by what I say.

Here is what I mean by being taught how to fish.

What I mean is that we're all taught how to get into our respective fields. I personally feel as though when I went to college I was only given part of what was required to succeed in IT and in the workplace in general. When I was graduating High school and first went to college I had no idea what an internship was or what it did. And, I didn't understand I was missing this information and it was pertinent for me to know it. And, even when I went to college and I understood what internships were I still didn't have a full perspective of what they were and what they actually did. And, I didn't realize this for a while. You can't research something if one doesn't know the things surrounding the problem. This is an unknown unknown.

And, I didn't realize that employers would want working experience already when I went to college. It was presented as though all one had to do was go to college. No one explained that I needed to do volunteer jobs or do internships or even explained even how to get them or explained what they fully were or did. And, I would not even know how to research or know what questions to ask on this especially in my younger years.

I made the best decisions I could and did everything that I was advised a good student and good person should do. Without a certain context I was missing and didn't realize I was missing there was no way I could've made the best and optimal decisions for myself.

And, if all of this was common sense and/or the memo was given then I must've missed the memo or common sense waved bye bye to me long ago.

So, how could I have taken personal responsibility in my case? How could I have made the correct or really the best and optimal choices if I lacked information and I didn't understand the circumstances surrounding this at all? So, if I don't know that I don't know then how can I choose optimally or correctly? How do I make the best decision? How am I in control of my life?

How do I do what is right exactly?

Yeah I'm beginning to feel and idk if this is 'generalising' that I'm never going to get through to certain Americans on this. It's like a French man trying to persuade an old Brit of the obvious - that there shouldn't be a monarchy. It's all to do with national identity and it's hard for an outsider to cut through that.

What scares me is that the Tories have taken the same tack since I was a kid. 'No such thing as society'. This is in my experience what separated two working class schools I went to. In one, kids were poor but working towards something - factory work. In the other, all kids had left which was likely to get them income was crime. So they didn't give a toss about education or even being a good person. It was all about learning to be tough. Difference? The mines had shut and the factory hadn't. The inland kids knew they were headed to a life on the dole. And uni cost money, moving away cost money, so they weren't possibilities.

Ahh ... I see ... we may be in agreement after all, with the only difference being that my "lab" positions may require a little more maths and technical expertise than your "shop" positions; but the basic requirements are the same (although I permit a non-programmable calculator to be used during the test).

As for the probationary period: A candidate should be able to take on their assignments from day one; but it may take anywhere from 1 to 6 months to determine the quality of their work and how well they get along with the rest of the team.  I have had to dismiss only one person in a year's time, and only because he seemed to behave in a questionable manner toward all the women, and more so toward one woman in particular.  His dismissal had nothing to do with his job-related skills (or lack thereof).

36 Days, 5 Hours, 15 Minutes to go...

I take it that lab positions require quite a bit of knowledge too? Degree education or at least it not being a minimum wage/first job.

My issue is that every job in the UK (and I looked at hundreds of job application forms) seems to require at least one of these 4 things: experience, gcse grade c maths (same with English), driving license or 'people skills'. This cuts out dyspraxic aspies from the world of 'first jobs' where in reality we can be of some use and shouldn't be forced onto ESA over it, we're employable. It's mostly an education issue - gcse needs to quit obsessing over geometry & give less mathematically gifted kids the knowledge they really need for something as basic as shop work.

The positions for which I screen require a minimum of a BSEE degree, no DUIs, and a valid driver's license.

I think there should be a pool of jobs (not high level jobs) where the standards are the same as they ever were before the job interview was invented. After all, the job interview was invented in the 1920s and it's difficult to say that Victorians didn't work hard.

These values are:

Show up punctually.
Show up every day.
Put the work in.
If you don't put the work in, you get sacked.
If you don't show up, you get sacked.
If you show up late, you get sacked.
They pay the minimum.
There's always someone waiting for the job.

These jobs would only be intended to be 'forever jobs' for the most intellectually disabled. For most people, they would just be the 'experience' before they did regular work. Ideally to combine with sixth form, fe college, uni or an apprenticeship.

They'd be stuff we trusted kids to do in my day and don't seem to trust kids to do now. Paper rounds for eg. And because we're dealing with adults unless they're physically disabled, you can add 'lifting and carrying heavy boxes'/'lifting and carrying building materials' to that. Someone to brew the teas or sweep the streets or pick up litter for the council. Unless someone is both severely physically disabled and severely mentally disabled, there will be something they can do at that level.

Then stuff like I wanted to ultimately do (I have an MA in librarianship & wanted to work in a library) and the stuff you hire for can wait and you know that you have a candidate with an idea of what work is. Don't pay librarians or librarians' assistants or teachers etc minimum wage, those are specialist jobs.

These wouldn't exist in every place of employment, of course. They would just be jobs out and about in society. It would improve the world we live in if someone was picking up the litter for eg and cleaning the graffiti. And it would make the individual aware of what it was to put in hard graft, get a result out of it, be punctual, etc.

Basically (and here is where I'm a centrist rather than a leftist) a non-military kind of national service. Except I'd make it voluntary - just looks bad if you're unwilling to do that & I'd argue you shouldn't be entitled to JSA because you're proving yourself not to be a job seeker.

It would sort the shirkers from the workers. And it would give the workers a chance to prove themselves.

And it would make personal responsibility more of a choice.

I think both the individual and society exist. Society is a good thing but it is made up of individuals.

My opinion:

If students or kids are not going to be taught exactly what is required of them when the join the workplace in their respective industries, they're not going to be taught what college is and what it does vs what it is not and what it doesn't do in my opinion I think the younger generations should boycott college.

If no one is guaranteed anything no matter they do or don't do I think personal responsibility is BS. And, since no one is guaranteed anything no matter what and one has to pay hefty fees unless they get scholarships again I think the younger gens should boycott college and not bother especially if employers including Fnord expects them to hit the ground running with no mentoring at all whether it is from employers, parents or educators.

I thank God that I had the hope scholarship but those younger then me and not in my state weren't so lucky.

when i contribute in any teeny tiny way to our corrupt economy, i feel slimy.