naturalplastic wrote:
Chronos wrote:
US deploys warships to Korean peninsula over North Korea's missiles testsOf course that probably pales in comparison to the number of submarines North Korea likely has lurking off the west coast of the U.S.
North Korea does have an outsized submarine fleet for a destitute small third world country of 25 million population. Despite having a population size of only about four average sized United States, and despite having practically no surface navy (it has numerous small patrol boats a few corvettes and frigates, and no destroyers, cruisers, nor aircraft carriers), NK does have a fleet of 70 subs. On paper that would make it almost the equal of the US Navy's force of 75 subs. But the US submarine force consists of up to the minute new high tech high performance nuclear powered subs. The NK submarine force consists of decades old aging low tech diesel electrics (mostly gifted to Pyanyang decades ago by Peking and Moscow).
My question is why would you assume that North Korea is flooding US waters with submarines? And in what sense could the North korean navy cause the US Navy to "pale in comparison"?
A typical single US aircraft carries has more tonnage than all 70 of north korea's subs put together (probably more than their entire navy put together). And thats with out the task force of ships deployed to protect the carrier.
I seriously doubt than any north korean sub could make it across the pacific to "lurk" off California. But even they had that capability why would North Korea deploy them that way? And why that in response to these manuevers?
The US Navy (biggest navy in the world) is teaming up with the Japanese navy (one of the top five biggest navy in the world), and the South Korean Navy (one of the top ten navies in the world) to "show the flag" off of North Korea's shores.
North Korea's navy (not in the top ten) can barely defend the nation's own shores. Their response to these three giant maritine intruders? Send the one strong asset of their navy (the submarine arm) six thousand miles away from their shores to the coast of California????? That would not strengthen their position. It would in fact lethally weaken their defense. Why would they do that?
First let me say, I have no proof that North Korea has submarines lurking off the coast of the US. It is speculation based on my profiling of North Korea.
The North Korean ruling powers use the threat of war with the US to remain in control, much like the government in the novel made movie, "1984" used a faux war with Oceania et al to remain in control of the populace. North Korea has made a wonderful enemy of us in the minds of North Koreans, and the North Korean people huddle together under the premise that we are bent on destroying them.
North Korean culture centers around family, state, and fighting Americans. In the mind of the average North Korean, we are their eternal enemy.
I'm sure there are still those in positions of power who know about this great lie. However they are aging and dying out and there will come a time when no one in power will remember the truth..that the U.S. only maintains a presence on the Korean peninsula to prevent North Korea from invading South Korea (and also likely for the sake of maintaining a strategic geographical position), and previously had no real interest in re-engaging North Korea.
Now enter the Trump administration. North Korea's leadership previously exploited the fact that the U.S. had no real interest in pursuing military action against them, by waging threats against the U.S. to bolster the great lie that keeps them in power. Previous administrations knew this was chest beating and ignored it. But not the Trump administration. North Korean leaders didn't understand that Trump is different. They didn't understand that this is a president who is as thin skinned and emotionally impulsive as they are, and that he was not going to let verbal threats slide.
Now they have a problem. They are up against the worst enemy anyone can possibly have. A more powerful version of themselves, who will probably not let them save face.
If North Korea feels backed into a corner, and is provoked, is there a reason they wouldn't lash out?
As to why submarines? Because proximity rules when you lack precision and the element of surprise. From a submarine stationed right off the west coast, they can strike an American base or city nearly instantaneously. If they launch an intercontinental ballistic missile from their end of the pacific, it's significantly less likely to his it's target. It's guidance can be thrown off, it can malfunction, run out of fuel prematurely or be shot down.
As for North Korea lacking state of the art military vessels, first let me say, analysts and the media have a history for underestimating North Korea's technological advancement. Analysts were saying that North Korea was decades away from making an atomic bomb, when they had already made one. Even if we assume North Korea's naval fleet is technologically lacking, they can still strike a major American city. I would like to say it would be impossible for them to win a war against us, but even with our advanced technology and the resources we pour into the military, we still have an embarrassingly poor track record against enemies which are at a technological disadvantage to us. We couldn't win against low tech, malnourished Viet Cong soldiers, and we haven't subdued gorilla fighters in the middle east. What North Korea lacks in technology, they make up for with cohesion, dedication, and preparedness.
You might know of the North Korean Arirang Mass Games. If not, look it up on Youtube. It's a demonstration of North Korean coordination. These groups of people practice much of the year, but it's not just for a show. It's also a form of military training much like the Nazis before WWII disguised their military training as civil works project units and scout programs.
This is a different subject than your other post.
Never said that North Korea wasnt powerful enough to be a local menace in its own neighborhood.
And I couldnt agree more that Trump shouldnt poke them with a stick. No argument that they could lash out. Our president's brinkmanship could get us in trouble.
But in that other post you made it sounded like you were one of the many folks who have watched "Red Dawn" one too many times, and believe that North Korea is a big country that could blanket the US with paratroopers like they did in the movie, and could conquer us in the way that Bush invaded Iraq. Which is very much not true.
The Norks have a lot of subs, but again they are not the kind the superpowers have. The super powers have both attack submarines (the traditional small subs that sink ships), and they also have "boomers" ( the large cruiser sized subs designed to launch batteries of ICBM missles at land targets in countries on land). The Norks dont have the kind of subs that can "attack cities".They dont have boomers. And the attack subs they have are not nuclear powered. They have diesel electrics subs not too dissimilar to the WWII subs in the movie "run silent, run deep" that can sink ships, but cant do anything to cities. Granted maybe they have secretly remodelled some of their small subs into being able to be crude platforms for launching a single to surface missle. Who knows- maybe if they got desperate they could get one sub close enough to San Diego to nuke it with a missle. Thats the problem with nukes. It just takes one to do dramatic damage. But the Norks can not stage the maritime equivalent of the start of the movie "Red Dawn" if thats what you think (ie stage a huge high profile naval presence off of our shores).
17 Apr 2017, 4:14 am
