Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

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Why are you advocating for hitting a woman (implicitly - someone physically weaker than you)?

Yeah, sure, all my life and travels through East Europe were in fact a staged play of Western propaganda. Poverty and repression of Eastern bloc was a staged Western propaganda. Corruption of Yanukovych's Ukraine was staged by Western propaganda.
And the whole generation of my parents were mind-controlled by lizard people to want to become part of the West. And it's all Western propaganda that I was living in a poor country full of shortages and crime when I was a child but now it's a middle-class, resilient economy and one of the safest countries in the world.
Maybe even falling in love with my husband was a manipulation by omnipotent feeling-controllers?
I guess I don't exist, together with all the reality around me, I'm just a manipulation of Western propaganda.

You're amazing.
All you keep doing is accusing me of being all wrong because my experience does not match your narrative. How about employing some Occam's razor? How about considering your narrative wrong?

I don't deny that USA may be jumping an occassion to proxy war, similarily to how they did in the 1980s in Afghanistan - but if all the processes in Europe did not happen, this occasion would not exist and USA would be doing something else.

Except maybe for the Black Sea ports, the US really doesn't have any vital interests in Ukraine. In the absence of Russian aggression, there really is no reason for the US to start a "proxy war." It doesn't make any sense from a practical standpoint.

What makes sense (except for the Russian annexation of the Crimea) is the maintenance of the status quo in the region.

Having Russia run ramrod over Europe is not in the best interests of the US, though. Their response is the only possible response. We all have to be really careful when it comes to the "nuclear" aspects of the situation.

Last edited by kraftiekortie on 15 Dec 2022, 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

You're right, Kraftie.
If, as many hoped in the optimistic 1990s, Russia became a regular state, focused on improving their own well-being and maintaining at least mutually acceptable relations with other states, there would be no need for any proxy war against them.
And if they did not break the taboo of invading, there would be no occasion for such a proxy war.

The ironic thing is that the Soviet Gorbachev was probably the only person who could have made Russia a "regular state." None of his successors in the "New Russia" had that sort of strength (or desire).

He was the DeKlerk of Russia.

If Russia didn't overtly invade Ukraine, the US wouldn't have done a damn thing. The US was willing to concede to Russia's annexation of the Crimea.

Last edited by kraftiekortie on 15 Dec 2022, 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Poland and Baltic states were the only part of Europe consistently insisting on not accepting Crimea annexation. The Western propaganda - such thing indeed exists but not in the omnipotent form some conspiracy theories like to paint it - kept dismissing our concerns as "rusophobic" and "paranoid".

Well... some high-profile people, especially in Germany, are admitting now that they were wrong and we understood it better.

You demonstrate exactly what I was saying. The act itself dissolves everything else that leads up to it. Why are you advocating hitting a woman = Why are you advocating invasion, Mikah?



Getting dangerously close to the truth here.



The U.S. finds itself in many rather serendipitous situations with all these proxy wars just happening exactly where they want them to.

Not true. Read the Grand Chessboard I mentioned earlier. Ukraine is vital to the US because it is vital to Russia and Russia is a potential competitor for US influence in Eurasia. Turn Ukraine enough and Russia is neutered in perpetuity. That's why the US is dicking around so much in Ukraine and why Russia is willing to burn its relations with most of the "international community" to stop Ukraine being absorbed under the American umbrella.

Under the geopolitical conditions pre-invasion, it wouldn't have made any sense, from a US standpoint, to start trouble in Ukraine.

Why?

The fact that they backed off pertaining to the annexation of the Crimea says it all. They didn’t feel it was in their best interest to pursue a hard line.

The US saw no reason to stir things up. They probably wouldn’t have made too much of the “annexation” of Donbass, etc. They would have thought it was “Ukraine’s problem.” They might have used subtle diplomatic pressure on Russia, probably not even new sanctions.

Russia’s military incursion into Ukraine changed the dynamic. This invited a drastic response which the US had no desire for, since the domestic situation is a mess there.

Last edited by kraftiekortie on 15 Dec 2022, 10:47 am, edited 4 times in total.

Okay.
No more questions.
I see the logic.

A lot of things I experience in East Europe agrees with what mainstream Western media write about East Europe. Mainstream Western media cannot write even a tiny little chunk of truth. Everything they write is always entirely false. Thus, either I lie or I'm a lie myself. No other explanation is possible.

Magz doesn’t want to live under the Russians. I wouldn’t want to, either.

She has seen the light from the dark tunnel of tyranny. She escaped into that light. She doesn’t want to go back to that dark, claustrophobic tunnel.

That was a result of their starting trouble in the first place. The meddling long predates 2014 and it intensified after Crimea was annexed.



The U.S. could end this war tomorrow if it wanted to, but it has other plans.

Putin could end it tomorrow too.

Whats your point?

Self-evident I would have thought? Kraftie is mistakenly operating on the assumption that the USA is moral force for good in the world and that it actually cares about Ukrainians.

It's "self-evident" only to you.

When you try to explain it, I see elaborate conspiracies constructed to avoid much simpler explanations.

I don't think Kraftie would see American readiness to accept anexation of Crimea as something morally right. Rather, as something suiting American business and political interests well enough.