Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

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carlos55
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15 Jan 2023, 12:36 pm

magz wrote:

carlos55 wrote:

More in respect to insurgency warfare against an occupying army

Can you explain what you mean in the context of this discussion?

carlos55 wrote:

Of course in the international arena of politics any successor could bring up the self determination issue too

You mean rhetorics?
Everyone keeps talking big words about great values. The question is how it compares to the reality.
If Russia cared for self-determination of nations, they would neither attack Kyiv nor, earlier, raze Grozny to the ground. Nor would they have done several things even earlier, like what they did to the Balts.

Weapons given but not enough to win war = a battle in towns and cities = Ukraine losing battle eventually = people leaving & homes destroyed = lands emptied = no angry people living there = no angry people to rule over = no insurgency war = no problems

Against the US in Iraq for example:-

One sided war = no real fight = army disappeared into local population = lots of people left in area that don’t like you = having to manage those people = those people plotting against you planting IEDs etc = lots of long term problems

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magz
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16 Jan 2023, 2:59 am

It didn't work that way when Nazi Germany and Soviet Union divided Poland between them.
We've been subjected to many attempts of making us disappear. It's called genocide and it causes more angry people and more insurgencies, unless you flat out physically destroy a nation, which is considered a crime against humanity and practically impossible with a nation of 40 million.

So, summing this up - your scenario 1 is impossible with a nation of several millions. Only a thin strip along the hottest parts of the frontline gets depopulated, not completely and not permanently. Look at Kherson, lots of people come back to their homes as soon as they consider it safe enough.
In the same time, genocide attempts make people really angry.

Anyway, the solution is simple:
We need to give Ukraine more weapons.
Enough to restore control within their rightful borders as quickly as possible.

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carlos55
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16 Jan 2023, 11:33 am

magz wrote:

Depends how far they advance. I would doubt even if they could militarily, they would not want to go beyond the central Ukraine area but most towns and cities in the combat zones since feb 21 have been largely destroyed and emptied.

magz
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16 Jan 2023, 12:13 pm

carlos55 wrote:

Depends how far they advance. I would doubt even if they could militarily, they would not want to go beyond the central Ukraine area

Then why were they attacking Kyiv?

carlos55 wrote:

but most towns and cities in the combat zones since feb 21 have been largely destroyed and emptied.

1. Not feb 21 but feb 24.
2. No. Kherson is still standing and full of people. Kupyansk is still standing and full of people. Melitopol is still standing and full of people. Tokmak is still standing and full of people. And so on, and so on.
A "depopulated" city is one that e.g. used to have a population of 300 thousand but now has 80 thousand (Kherson). Or one that dwindled from 150 000 to 60 000 (Melitopol). That's still plenty of people, way too many for your scenario to be even remotely possible - not to mention that many of those who left are willing to come back as soon as it's reasonably safe.

The cameras are all on Mariupol and Bakhmut because journalists are hyenas but overall, Ukraine is big and full of people, both in the occupied and the "regular" territories.

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magz
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18 Jan 2023, 8:23 am

Russian propaganda about Poland attacking Ukraine (already mentioned in this thread) gets stronk XD XD XD

https://t.me/Pul_Nomer_3/156526

Only they forgot to use Polish diacritics.
I don't know what drugs they are taking but I don't want it.

What TVP1 weather forecast actually looks like:

More seriously: Monastyrsky (Ukrainian minister of internal affairs) died in a helicopter crash. Hopefully, the system is resilient enough to survive it without much turbulence.

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auntblabby
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18 Jan 2023, 8:31 am

i still don't get why the majority of our GOP has taken russia's side on this.

DeathFlowerKing
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18 Jan 2023, 8:40 am

auntblabby wrote:

i still don't get why the majority of our GOP has taken russia's side on this.

Because their orange messiah thinks he's best friends with Putin and that's good enough for them.

magz
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18 Jan 2023, 8:42 am

auntblabby wrote:

i still don't get why the majority of our GOP has taken russia's side on this.

The majority or the loudest minority?

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DeathFlowerKing
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18 Jan 2023, 8:49 am

magz wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

i still don't get why the majority of our GOP has taken russia's side on this.

The majority or the loudest minority?

I live in Georgia (in the US) and I can honestly say this new found support for the Russian side of this war isn't as uncommon as you would like to think. Because we have a LOT of brainwashed Trump supporters in my state and these people know Trump supports Putin so therefor they support him and believe the far right propaganda on the internet.

magz
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18 Jan 2023, 9:49 am

The more I learn about it, the stronger my suspicion that Putin contributed greatly to Trump getting into power - to have the West sink in its own trouble, have NATO collapsed and no one to stop Putin's plans.

I'm really glad there were people to block the stupidest ideas of Trump.

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DeathFlowerKing
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18 Jan 2023, 10:33 am

magz wrote:

I completely agree and I hope 'Trumpism' (as it is called) dies out sooner rather than later, not just for our sake but for Ukraine and the rest of Europe.

auntblabby
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18 Jan 2023, 10:44 am

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

magz wrote:

I completely agree and I hope 'Trumpism' (as it is called) dies out sooner rather than later, not just for our sake but for Ukraine and the rest of Europe.

only to be replaced by desatanism, that florida guy is goin' places.

magz
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18 Jan 2023, 11:34 am

I can't find much about DeSantis' opinions on international policies.
He's pro-Israel, anti-China and criticized Biden for Afghanistan withdrawal (at the time, I criticized him for it, too) but apparently, he took no position on NATO or Ukraine at all... waiting for poll results?

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DeathFlowerKing
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18 Jan 2023, 1:06 pm

Something about DeSantis scares me because he seems much more competent as a politician than Trump. He's basically like a younger and smarter Trump with a strong growing fanbase, unlike Trump whose grip on the GOP seems to be slipping.

I feel like if anyone is destined to be Trump's heir it would be him, and that worries me. I live very close to Florida and my mom still owns property there. I hear people talking about DeSantis all the time both on the internet and in real life. He's developing a similar cult following as Trump.

magz
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18 Jan 2023, 1:16 pm

More competent, not an idiot, but still populist?
Indeed, this is dangerous. Our Eminence Grise is like that. I do not recommend.

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Dengashinobi
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18 Jan 2023, 2:02 pm

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

I like DeSantis, he has done some pretty nice things that a conservative politician should do. I particularly liked the way he handled the pandemic and also banning critical theory and all the nonsense in schools was something I really liked. I also liked the stunt with migrants in Martha's vineyard. Lol

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