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TallyMan
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24 Jul 2012, 4:19 pm

iBlockhead wrote:
Cornflake wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Not to get off subject, but what part of Russia are you from?
Джокер город. :wink:


You mean тролльград?

(I hope that soft sign is there)


Yes it is "trolligrad" :wink: Beware mods that can read Russian. :P



nominalist
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25 Jul 2012, 5:23 pm

Here are two intriguing references on the Tetragrammaton:

Quote:
This name is written two different ways - אליה, pronounced as “eliy-yāh” or אליהו, pronounced as “eliy-yāhu”. There are three components to this name. The first is אל (el) the Hebrew word for “power” and “authority” and is commonly translated as God or god. The י is a letter added to the end of a noun to mean “my” hence אלי means “my God”. The י also doubles as the first letter of the next part of the name - יה (Yāh) or יהו (yāhu). Both “yāh” and “yāhu” are two different forms of the tetragrammaton יהוה (YHWH), the name of God. The root of YHWH as well as Yāh and Yāhu is היה literally meaning “to breathe”.
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/emagazine/006.html

The Jewish name for God – Yāhweh – was not spoken, but breathed. Its correct pronunciation is an attempt to imitate the sound of inhalation and exhalation. We do that every moment: our first and last word as we enter and leave the world.
http://www.ehillschurch.com/tag/yahweh-prayer/


These quotations might indicate, if accurate, that Yāhweh was a kind of onomotopeia (a word intended to mimic a sound).

More information I put together on the subject:

http://markfoster.org/breathing.html


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kxmode
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25 Jul 2012, 11:45 pm

@nominalist - It is true that its takes breathing to speak God's name. Would you also agree that it is equally true that we must breath in order to speak in general? When Jesus was alive he took in breath to make God’s name known. Further he took in breath to help people know God verbally, and taught them to pray that God’s name be sanctified. (Matthew 6:9) If ehillschurch's definition of Matthew 6:9 in pronouncing God's name is a simple breathing exercise then how will this sanctify God’s name? (John 17:26; Romans 10:13, 14) Further, according to Jewish religious law and superstition Jews were actually forbidden from saying the divine name. Instead Jews substituted titles like Elohim (God) and Adonai (Master or Lord) were used in place of YHWH (Yahweh, or Jehovah in English). How trustworthy can this church be if the foundation of their information is wrong?



Last edited by kxmode on 26 Jul 2012, 11:05 am, edited 2 times in total.

nominalist
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26 Jul 2012, 1:23 am

kxmode, I am not a Hebrew scholar. However, yes, repeating the Tetragrammaton is forbidden among Orthodox Jews.

Of course, Orthodox Jews represent only a tiny fraction of all Jews worldwide. It is the second smallest major Jewish movement in the U.S. (smaller than Reform and Conservative and larger than Reconstructionist).

Like most American Jews, I was raised in an essentially non-practicing Jewish home, so the issue was never relevant to me. I then became a member of the Baháʾí Faith in 1970.

Since I have never been a Christian, whether one or another church is trustworthy is, to me, not important. In addition to loving Moses and Jesus, I love Muḥammad, my dear Baháʾuʾlláh, and all the other Messengers of God.

As I mentioned before, some people have made the theological (not necessarily historical) argument that the word, Yāhweh, itself was originally intended to mimic the breath. Although I find that idea personally appealing, I have no way of knowing whether it is valid.


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ruveyn
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26 Jul 2012, 8:18 am

thewhitrbbit wrote:
That's kind of offensive you refer to the Jewish belief about not pronouncing the proper name of god as a "superstition"

It's my understanding no one knows for sure the vowels that go along with the name, so w/o the vowel points, we can't know for sure.


It is almost certain that the pronounciation is close to "yaweh" or "yohweh" The name is the perfective tense of the verb "to be".

ruveyn