The problem of SJWs

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Dox47
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18 Sep 2016, 9:24 pm

wilburforce wrote:

No, I obviously didn't. But just because you tacked that on to the front of your statement doesn't mean that you didn't then go on to say that this is how it's supposed to work, that people suffer consequences for their actions; which suggests that rape threats are in fact a legitimate consequence of saying something stupid. That is why I said you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Okay, you also seemed to have missed the question mark, as I was not offering my own position, but instead asking if this was the intended outcome of calling people out online, creating consequences for them.

wilburforce wrote:

You will often hear/see people say things like "I'm not racist, but..." and then go on to express a very racist opinion. Saying "I'm not racist" doesn't actually cancel out the racism in what follows, but somehow people think it does if they say that. This is an example of "talking out of both sides of one's mouth". You say rape threats are unacceptable, but then follow that with something about how people suffering consequences for their actions is how it's supposed to work, suggesting that they are in fact acceptable because "hey, consequences". You are contradicting yourself.

Again, re-read my original post, and notice that I do not offer my own opinion about what, if any, consequences should accompany being filmed acting like a jerk.

wilburforce wrote:

Like I said, I know you like to be contrarian and play devil's advocate--but surely there is another contrary tack you can take in this discussion that doesn't involve defending rape threats.

Repeating a lie enough does not make it true. I condemned the threats with literally my first words, and at no point defended them.

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wilburforce
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18 Sep 2016, 9:35 pm

Dox47 wrote:

wilburforce wrote:

Again, re-read my original post, and notice that I do not offer my own opinion about what, if any, consequences should accompany being filmed acting like a jerk.

wilburforce wrote:

Like I said, I know you like to be contrarian and play devil's advocate--but surely there is another contrary tack you can take in this discussion that doesn't involve defending rape threats.

Repeating a lie enough does not make it true. I condemned the threats with literally my first words, and at no point defended them.

I didn't miss the question mark, and that is why I said you "suggested" rather than "stated" that rape threats are an acceptable consequence of a woman saying something stupid publicly. I know you are very careful to imply things rather than state them explicitly which was why I was careful to say you suggested it rather than that you stated it. See, others can walk that line too.

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Dox47
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18 Sep 2016, 10:00 pm

wilburforce wrote:

I don't think these words mean what you think they do. Asking a question is not a suggestion, I'm really not sure how you twisted my asking about the goals of calling someone out to me declaring rape threats acceptable, especially when I declared them beyond the pale with my first words.

Also, I'd like to point out the way you're gendering the statements you're attempting to attribute to me, when I went out of my way to word my post neutrally. Kinda makes it look like you're trying to put words in my mouth.

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wilburforce
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18 Sep 2016, 11:12 pm

Dox47 wrote:

wilburforce wrote:

Um, was the person who was receiving rape threats for saying something stupid publicly in this particular instance not a woman? She looked female in the video but I could be wrong. Not sure how calling her a woman is "gendering" statements. You're really digging with that one.

Dox47
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19 Sep 2016, 12:27 am

wilburforce wrote:

Do you really not see a difference between "people should suffer consequences for acting like jerks" and "women should suffer consequences for acting like jerks"? I used gender neutral language, you gendered it when attempting to paraphrase me, changing the meaning, kinda like how you keep accusing me of condoning something I condemned in literally the first words of a post.

Also, I never even said I think anyone should suffer consequences for acting like a jerk, I merely observed that bringing down consequences is the whole point of calling someone out, in the perhaps naive hope that someone might realize that those consequences can quickly get out of control, and maybe be a bit slower to invoke them in the future.

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wilburforce
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19 Sep 2016, 1:40 am

Dox47 wrote:

wilburforce wrote:

I said woman because this whole time I've been talking about the woman in the video, who was sent rape and death threats. She is a woman, so I said woman. I don't see how this is me changing the meaning of anything. You are really reaching.

That's right people--think ahead before you speak in public, because that might bring rape threats your way. That's just the cost of doing business if you speak publicly so you should be careful. That's what we should take away from this, not how incredibly wrong it is that anyone thinks that the way to inform this woman that they disagree with her political stance is to threaten to physically violate her body??? Maybe instead we should be talking about how we can change public dialogue so that people realise that threatening sexual violence against someone is not ever an appropriate way to express disagreement with their political views? Obviously we all understand that actions have consequences, but we should also all understand that rape threats should not ever be "how that works".

adifferentname
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19 Sep 2016, 2:25 am

Dox47 wrote:

wilburforce wrote:

If it makes you feel any better, she's getting rape and death threats since this went viral. Should be some consolation. :lol:

The threats are obviously unacceptable, but isn't this how the whole "call out" thing is supposed to work, with people facing consequences for their actions?

You're assuming that any credible threats have actually been made. I default to scepticism when someone tries to assume a mantle of victimhood after being caught out in their bad behaviour - in this case harassment and intimidation.

BaronHarkonnen85
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19 Sep 2016, 9:07 pm

Social justice is cancer. Nukes are the answer.

In all seriousness, they seem everywhere. PC is poison and needs to die. People are offended by everything these days.

Cultural Appropriation. Trigger Warnings. Microaggressions. Macroaggressions. Safe Spaces.

The insanity has to end.

Kill it with fire!

The biggest problem I see is that people want echo-chambers to reinforce their biases. They crave confirmation bias. It's not just SJWs. Everyone is like that to some degree. Even I can't escape my confirmation bias at times. I'm only human.

But creating "safe spaces" and using "trigger warnings" and this nonsense about "microaggressions" only creates echo-chambers and indoctrinates people.

The SJWs are also anti-science. The have flooded the social "sciences" with their bullsh*t. They are anti-positivists, often social constructionist, who reject the scientific method.

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Dox47
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20 Sep 2016, 2:57 am

adifferentname wrote:

I assumed good faith for the sake of argument, and judging from the response, I'm glad I did.

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ASPartOfMe
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20 Sep 2016, 11:04 am

This version of SJW thought will not be good for autistics and other living things.
University Warns Students Against Thought Crime

Quote:

But Clark has entered new territory by expanding the category of forbidden aggressions to include thought crimes: “Showing surprise when a ‘feminine’ woman says she is a lesbian” is, according to Clark, an aggressive act.

Bieng surprised that a lesbian can present as feminine means does not make you aggressive it makes you an ignoramous on matters lesbian. If somebody said that to me I would likely show an expression of surprise. That I an older hetro male would express surprise if somebody said lesbian women can not present as feminine would probably at minimum an cause an expression of surprise to those "tolerant" thinkers at Clark. But since I am not a lesbian I doubt I would be allowed the "privilege" of a safe space to prevent me for hearing such a statement.

These SJW's get into thought loops that (trigger warning) rival any autistic ones.

On a less sarcastic note

Quote:

The Ann Coulters of the world think that the only thing that matters to Trump supporters is stopping illegal immigration. They’re wrong; many conservatives are supporting Trump because, in spite of his obvious wrongness on any number of issues, they believe that what this country needs most is a repudiation of political correctness

Exactly.

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AspE
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20 Sep 2016, 6:21 pm

BaronHarkonnen85 wrote:

...But creating "safe spaces" and using "trigger warnings" and this nonsense about "microaggressions" only creates echo-chambers and indoctrinates people..

Safe spaces and trigger warnings are like sex safe words, they mean that you are going to talk about difficult subjects, not ignore them.

Chronos
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21 Sep 2016, 12:35 am

BaronHarkonnen85 wrote:

As a minority in my field, I've been subjected to both outright discrimination, and microagressions. I find that, by and large, those who express the sentiments you have, tend to be people who have always been part of the majority demographic in their respective environments, and so have not been subjected to prejudice on nearly the same scale.

I do not offend easily, but yes, I am offended when I am treated as less than because I look different than those around me, and I do not think it's unreasonable to bring the issue to light, or demand to be treated with the same level of respect as those around me.

That is really what is at the heart of the issue. People failing to treat others respectfully. In no instance have I ever walked into a situation waiving my minority status like a flag. On the contrary, it's usually not on my mind until someone else makes it an issue by treating me poorly because of it.

Wouldn't it be great if everyone could just treat those different than them with the same level of respect they afford to those who are not different than them? Then we wouldn't be having these conversations and everyone could go on their merry way.

Last edited by Chronos on 21 Sep 2016, 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

anagram
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21 Sep 2016, 12:39 am

what is "microaggression" supposed to mean? i've never heard the word before

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Chronos
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21 Sep 2016, 12:49 am

anagram wrote:

what is "microaggression" supposed to mean? i've never heard the word before

It's a type of passive aggressiveness, when a person says or does something which implies a negative bias against someone, but not in a manner which can be called out as overtly prejudice or discriminatory.

For example, assume you had a boss who didn't like you because you have AS. However, instead of your boss being open about this, it came through in snide, condescending remarks, or your boss assigns the good project, which you need to demonstrate your skills such that you can get promotions, to your co-worker, who is less qualified.

Here is another example. I worked with a guy who I had later found disliked me for reasons which turned out to be invalid (he thought I had done something that I didn't). Instead of revealing the issue to me, he expressed his hostilities by ignoring my presence and input. When walking with a group to a different room, though I was just a few feet behind him, he made a point not to hold the door for me, as everyone else before him had done for those behind them. He would ignore my input at meetings, and essentially do his best to act like I didn't exist, without others catching on.

Last edited by Chronos on 21 Sep 2016, 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

dcj123
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21 Sep 2016, 12:50 am

anagram wrote:

what is "microaggression" supposed to mean? i've never heard the word before

The term “microaggression” was used by Columbia professor Derald Sue to refer to “brief and commonplace daily verbal, behavioral, or environmental indignities, whether intentional or unintentional, that communicate hostile, derogatory, or negative racial slights and insults toward people of color.”

According to Google, I don't think it always has to do with race but meh,

Chronos
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21 Sep 2016, 12:59 am

dcj123 wrote:

anagram wrote:

what is "microaggression" supposed to mean? i've never heard the word before

It can be applied to these things towards any person for whatever reason.

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