Debunking 'Gender is a social contruct.'

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Most women don’t think like this...

To me, this seems like a rather angry manifesto.

Oh boy! This is ONE perspective. It’s not reflective of ALL women or even the majority of women.

There’s just so much to unpack here that I wouldn’t know where to begin.

Those who have been victimized by women are going to have a real problem with reading this...

I have stated strongly on this forum that I am a feminist and that my personal belief system and experiences have inspired a special interest in women’s rights and issues.

However, as a person that has been discriminated against, I have trouble understanding how I could discriminate against other people. I welcome those who identify as female even though they are biologically male into my space.

A lot of positivity comes from female spaces and sisterhood but that doesn’t mean that I can’t identify with other groups and welcome them in, especially those who have been oppressed in some way.

Perhaps she has a right to be angry. I don’t want to belittle her experience or perspective.

It certainly isn’t my opinion.

Most feminists have a broader understanding of gender theory and are involved with LGBT rights.

I do agree with her that sexual violence against women is a huge problem although it’s not limited to women only.

https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/fil ... ence_0.pdf

Anybody has the right to be angry if they have been screwed with.

But this person generalizes and pigeonholes "men" as if they are an amorphous mass, not individuals. Obviously, she wants no part of "men," whatsoever. That's her right; I'm not denying that she has the right to this.

She has the right to not want the company of men. And I have the right to believe that she wrote an angry manifesto.

Which she had the right to do.

I guess I just wanted to constructively address what she says without tearing her down for it.

I think that if she and I could chat we’d understand each other better. I have had these weird experiences throughout my life when I’ve talked to people with strange, outlandish, and even offensive ideas and opinions. Even if I don’t agree with them, I usually leave with some sort of understanding as to why they think and behave the way they do.

Wow, that’s off-track. Focus!

I get where she’s coming from when speaking of “sisterhood.” Growing up in a group that was oppressive towards women, I observed that a lot of the women had this special bond with each other. They’d hold hands during prayers, hug, and mostly talk to other women because they shared so much of a common experience.

I can relate to other oppressed groups because our experiences are relatable. We aren’t limited by our biology.

I wouldn't mind talking to her myself

I'm not lambasting the PERSON. I'm lambasting, more, WHAT SHE WROTE.

I have no idea who this person is, or what she is about. For all I know, she can be the sweetest person, who raises her kids well. And is a great intellectual to boot.

I have met some very nice people who have some pretty radical ideas.

I don't believe in a "brotherhood" where only men hang out, and exclude woman. That's just not my scene.

She believes in a "sisterhood"---as if she can relate only to woman....and that men are alien beings or something. Not realizing that there are woman out there who can be just as bad as the men.

I know you weren’t lambasting her.

Could you see how a “sisterhood” could be beneficial for women who have experienced some sort of discrimination or oppression?

Perhaps I can relate to it based upon my personal experiences. I don’t like the idea of it being trampled on because I’ve observed some of its healing powers.

I’d never dismiss the notion of “female spaces,” but I think that it should be more inclusive. It also doesn’t mean that I would only spend my time in that group.

I miss being part of a sisterhood. It’s been a really long time...

Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 05 Jun 2019, 12:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

"I believe women have an absolute right to female-only spaces, and males have no right to try to invade those spaces on the basis of feelings. Woman is something you are, not something you feel."

ya know, this woman's rant is over the top, but I do agree with some of her observations/opinions

Have you ever observed or experienced an empowering “sisterhood” or “female space?”

Nope. http://www.isna.org/faq/what_is_intersex

I don't see anything wrong with "sisterhood." Or with women hanging out with each other as a club, with the implication that men shouldn't "join in" out of respect. Maybe even as a sort of "shield" against men who have oppressed them.

If I saw a bunch of women hanging out with each other, and I saw no men with them, I would wait to be invited into that group.

What I don't agree with is the absolute insistence that the best companion/friend for a woman is another woman, rather than a man, for "historical reasons," because of the "Patriarchy" or whatever.

It gets a little complex when a man says what a sisterhood should or shouldn’t be like...

Certainly! The best companion for me is a trusted companion, regardless of their gender. It's sexist to assume that one's sex and / or gender defines their personality or experience, or makes them more suitable for a friendship or group gathering than someone else.

Grouping people by sex or gender defeats the point of this thread.

The central claim in that article is false. There are studies into the effects of puberty blockers. Some directly look at it from a trans perspective: https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/ ... /134/4/696

Most, however, look at it from the perspective of blocking precocious puberty (usually in girls aged 6-8 and boys under 9) and contrasexual puberty (when someone goes through the opposite sex's puberty). Precocious puberty is a condition which can cause a lot of health problems as well as stunted growth; I'm sure you can imagine the issues that contrasexual puberty. Treatment of precocious puberty with puberty blockers has been well-studied since the 80s, and puberty reliably restarts within nine months of blockers being stopped. I suppose there might be a question about someone being on blockers for six or seven years rather than two or three, but it's hardly the leap in the dark that the pearl-clutchers would have you believe.

I also note that the website you have linked to does not seem to hold itself to a particularly high journalistic standard. Not only did it overlook everything I just said, I would recommend taking a gander at some of the headlines in the sidebar (e.g. complaining that society is anti-male and kids these days have no respect and criticising Netflix for boycotting Georgia) - this is a conservative Christian website posing as "rational and balanced" despite being nothing of the sort

As a biologist (although no longer a professional one - I work in climate science), I don't think the "basic terms of biology" are being subverted by trans inclusiveness. Biology is a science, not a dogma. We follow the facts and embrace complexity. When new evidence comes to light then we change what we think. We thought that men have penises and women have vaginas. We were wrong. We move with that.

Humans have an innate sense of gender which does not map perfectly onto their gonads, karyotype, or gametes. There are species of fungi with hundreds of sexes. Male seahorses carry their young, some species determine their sex by the temperature their eggs were incubated at, many plants are hermaphrodites, and let's not even get started on bees, the mole salamander, or some of those weird flies. Schools cannot possibly teach you the whole truth. What you learn in almost every subject at school is a greatly simplified version of reality, and sex ed is no different. I found it very frustrating when I was at school, particularly in the later years when you realise that the things you were taught earlier were gross simplifications and the stuff you are being taught now probably is too. So if some schools decide to teach a more accurate sex ed which acknowledges that some women have penises - hey, fine by me. It will help their students understand the world better. People shouldn't have to choose to become doctors or biologists in order to learn about trans people.

Conflating hermaphrodites with people who believe they're in the wrong body is a common propaganda tactic.

I have Ferret Syndrome and believe it is in the best interest of the forum as a whole for this thread to be locked.

This thread might as well be a discussion about autism being a mental illness.