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pandabear
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28 Aug 2011, 6:05 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
Tequila wrote:
The anti-alcohol bandwagon is here, and it's loud and clear too. That's what I'm saying - it's not just about smoking; the anti-alcohol zealots want to restrict people being able to have a drink in peace, too.

I suspect we'll see a few non-alcohol pubs opening eventually, Inshallah.
ROFL


Maybe we'll also have brothels where no sex is allowed.



techn0teen
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28 Aug 2011, 7:02 pm

Public places should be smoking free. Period. Smoke on your own property and designated smoking places only. There are good reasons why it is banned.

Smoking in public places is discriminatory against those with breathing difficulties. I have a friend who was hit by a drunk driver. Her car fell over a freeway pass with her in it. She survived, but she has to carry around breathing tank because her lungs collapsed after her car impacted with the ground.

Before our university enforced non-smoking in public places, she would be trying to get to her class when idiots would smoke while walking in front of her. She would then cough and cough. She then couldn't make it to her classes.

There are people who have asthma. My mother has asthma and when people smoke around her she wheezes. If people were allowed to smoke on the sidewalk, she would never be able to go out. She wouldn't be able to shop, go to the park, or anything. That's not fair especially if the smoker has a home they can smoke at.



Tequila
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28 Aug 2011, 7:25 pm

pandabear wrote:
Don't they have those in Saudi Arabia?


To be fair, there is a temperance bar not that far from me. It's a hangover from the old temperance movement, and is the last in the country. Having said that, it would be impossible to use it as a place to socialise because of the limited opening hours (they only open from mid-mornings to late in the afternoon) and makes its living more as a curio selling old-fashioned drinks instead of being a serious place for those sorts of people.



Last edited by Tequila on 28 Aug 2011, 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tequila
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28 Aug 2011, 7:30 pm

techn0teen wrote:
Public places should be smoking free. Period. Smoke on your own property and designated smoking places only. There are good reasons why it is banned.


But what about the chiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiildren? They're being poisoned in there by their disgusting, vicious parent's smoke! They're being murdered in there, I say! No, nay, ban the evil weed, its plant and burn any and all followers, sympathisers, random people and anyone else we dislike for any reason at the stake!

It's chiiiiiiilderrens lives at risk here!



AceOfSpades
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28 Aug 2011, 7:47 pm

pandabear wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
Tequila wrote:
The anti-alcohol bandwagon is here, and it's loud and clear too. That's what I'm saying - it's not just about smoking; the anti-alcohol zealots want to restrict people being able to have a drink in peace, too.

I suspect we'll see a few non-alcohol pubs opening eventually, Inshallah.
ROFL


Maybe we'll also have brothels where no sex is allowed.
We do, they're called strip clubs. Fortunately the semantics will keep it from becoming a slippery slope.



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28 Aug 2011, 8:17 pm

techn0teen wrote:
Public places should be smoking free. Period. Smoke on your own property and designated smoking places only. There are good reasons why it is banned.

Smoking in public places is discriminatory against those with breathing difficulties. I have a friend who was hit by a drunk driver. Her car fell over a freeway pass with her in it. She survived, but she has to carry around breathing tank because her lungs collapsed after her car impacted with the ground.

Before our university enforced non-smoking in public places, she would be trying to get to her class when idiots would smoke while walking in front of her. She would then cough and cough. She then couldn't make it to her classes.

There are people who have asthma. My mother has asthma and when people smoke around her she wheezes. If people were allowed to smoke on the sidewalk, she would never be able to go out. She wouldn't be able to shop, go to the park, or anything. That's not fair especially if the smoker has a home they can smoke at.

Public places are for the public, this includes smokers. Period.

People smoking infront of a person with a breathing tank are either inconsiderate jerks or they didn't notice.

People with asthma have much more to look out for than a smoker's fumes. It's also not fair to force smokers to stay at home, the very thing you're trying to prevent for your asthmatic mother.


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pandabear
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28 Aug 2011, 8:20 pm

Lecks wrote:
It's also not fair to force smokers to stay at home, the very thing you're trying to prevent for your asthmatic mother.


No-one is saying that smokers have to stay home. They can go in public, but just can't smoke in public. Just as I may go out in public, but must not masturbate in public.



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29 Aug 2011, 1:08 am

http://reason.com/blog/2011/08/26/anoth ... tudy-finds

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Two weeks ago (while I was camping in Colorado), Michael Siegel highlighted a study presented at the American Heart Association's annual meeting that further undermines widely publicized claims that smoking bans lead to immediate, dramatic reductions in heart attack rates. As I have been saying since anti-tobacco activists began making these claims in 2003, hundreds of jurisdictions have smoking bans, and you would expect heart attack rates to decline in some of them purely by chance while rising or remaining essentially unchanged in others. If you focus only on the jurisdictions where heart attacks happen to fall substantially—such as Helena, Montana, or Pueblo, Colorado—it is not hard to create a misleading impression. But as Siegel notes, "The studies which have systematically examined the effect of smoking bans on heart attacks in all cities across the country that have implemented such bans have found that while heart attacks have declined in many cities, they have increased in others. The overall effect is nil, or very close to it." The new study (PDF), by Robin Mathews of the Duke Clinical Research Institute, fits this pattern.

Mathews looked at heart attack rates among people 65 and older (measured by hospital admissions and Medicare claims) in 74 U.S. cities the year before and the year after the implementation of smoking bans. Over all, there was a 3 percent decline. In his presentation of the study, Mathews concludes that "the measured impact of [smoking bans] on AMI [acute myocardial infarction] rates after ban implementation was less than previously estimated from published literature." That's a bit of an understatement, for several reasons. First, ban boosters have cited reductions as big as 47 percent—more than 15 times the change Mathews found. Second, Mathews did not compare the cities with smoking bans to cities without smoking bans, so we don't know whether heart attacks fell more in the first group than in the second. (Siegel notes that a 3 percent drop is smaller than the nationwide declines seen in recent years.) Third, when Mathews restricted his analysis to the 43 cities with laws that represented "a meaningful increase in restrictiveness," he found no statistically significant decline in heart attacks. That means heart attacks fell more in cities that made insignificant changes to their laws than in cities that tightened restrictions in a way that had a practical impact—which makes no sense if smoking bans really do drive down heart attack rates. Nevertheless, Siegel writes in a follow-up post, "a number of anti-smoking researchers" argue that Mathews' study "actually supports the prior research." Mathews himself, who says one of his research goals was "to validate the existing effect estimate," evidently was hoping for more politically convenient results as well.

As Siegel notes, those are the results that tend to be published in scientific journals and publicized in the general press:

It seems clear that the explanation for the discrepancy [between published studies and broader analyses like Mathews'] is publication bias. There are many factors operating which discourage researchers from reporting "negative" findings. It is also much more difficult to get negative findings published, especially on this topic. No researchers are running out to publish a study showing no decline in heart attacks following a smoking ban.

No matter how biologically implausible it is to expect big drops in heart attacks immediately after smoking bans take effect, tobacco control researchers, journal editors, anti-smoking activists, public health officials, and health reporters all want it to be true—so much so that a CDC-commissioned report issued by the Institute of Medicine two years ago endorsed this basic story, ignoring a nationwide analysis that found heart attacks were as likely to rise in cities with smoking bans as they were to fall. (That study, available at the time as a working paper from the National Bureau of Economic Research, was later published by the Journal of Policy Analysis and Management.) The authors of the IOM report hedged their bets by declining to estimate the magnitude of the effect, leaving open the possibility that it is in practice indistinguishable from zero. That way they never have to set the record straight.

Christopher Snowdon has more here.


Supporting links on the original page.


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Nil_Nil
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29 Aug 2011, 7:04 am

My 2 cents. Smokers face social stigma. Social....i.e....people. To stigmatize a group you need another group of people to assert social pressure. You know, be an a$$hole. Its a tactic. Shame the smoker. The ones that revel in it are the ones that take the issue and elevate it to the point where they receive some personal gratification from being on the "right" side of an issue that has several sides.



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01 Apr 2012, 12:22 pm

As long as smokers understand fully what they are doing to themselves

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zWB4dLYChM[/youtube]

and don't expose children to it

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eUOjSTZMIE&feature=related[/youtube]

and only smoke in the comfort of hermetically sealed rooms designed specifically for them

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WrWwUsKKN8&feature=relmfu[/youtube]

then, fine, smoke away.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEWky9PEroU&feature=relmfu[/youtube]

(really cute ads, don't you think?)



TM
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01 Apr 2012, 1:51 pm

I just got myself an electric cigarette, same nicotine not covered by the smoking ban and cheaper than cigarettes. So, in the end I just spent the extra money on a shirt that says "Don't you wish you could tell me to put this away?".

If its the smell:
- A lot of people need to shower more often.
- A lot of people wear too much or bad smelling perfume, quite frequently both.
- A lot of people randomly pass gas.

If it's the passive smoking thing and the health risks, how about every other health risk out there that exists because of human stupidity? Why single out smoking, bad drivers, gun owners, people who eat fast food, people who do not eat vegetables, people who eat tons of meat thus ensuring that factory farming will continue to send clouds of methane into the atmosphere and so on.

I find people bitching about stuff a hell of a lot more annoying than I do smoking, it's bad for my health too because I get high blood pressure and risk an aneurysm from suppressing the urge to kill them where they stand. If they had to outlaw one thing, why not make it people with an IQ under 110? I'm going to start making T-shirts that say "If you think my smoking is bad..." on the front and "Then you should have seen your mother smoking pole last night".



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01 Apr 2012, 2:06 pm

What would be the point of an electric cigarette? Just another way to kill one's self, while being less annoying to others?



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01 Apr 2012, 2:13 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
What would be the point of an electric cigarette? Just another way to kill one's self, while being less annoying to others?


It's just nicotine, nothing extra. There is no smoke to inhale, just a small amount of water vapour and nicotine.


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Tequila
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01 Apr 2012, 2:19 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
As long as smokers understand fully what they are doing to themselves

then, fine, smoke away.


They do. It's been hammered into them relentlessly for the past forty years. Those that do are well aware of the risks these days. Leave them in peace.



TM
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01 Apr 2012, 2:29 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
What would be the point of an electric cigarette? Just another way to kill one's self, while being less annoying to others?


For one you don't inhale carcinogens, tar and a bunch of other stuff since its nicotine laced steam. The other point is to be able to freely puff away in public transport, on airplanes or wherever else I please.



TM
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01 Apr 2012, 2:29 pm

Tequila wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
As long as smokers understand fully what they are doing to themselves

then, fine, smoke away.


They do. It's been hammered into them relentlessly for the past forty years. Those that do are well aware of the risks these days. Leave them in peace.


WHAT???? HEALTH RISKS???? I THOUGHT SMOKING WAS GOOD FOR ME.