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hyperlexian
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24 Jan 2013, 12:43 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
Even if there were such a thing as a universe where sex is an entitlement then it would be logical to conclude that love would also be an entitlement. In that universe if you were to use someone purely for your own sexual gratification without any love involved then it would be logical to conclude that a person could feel violated.

that is a really interesting twist. quite thought-provoking!


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AspieOtaku
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24 Jan 2013, 12:51 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
Even if there were such a thing as a universe where sex is an entitlement then it would be logical to conclude that love would also be an entitlement. In that universe if you were to use someone purely for your own sexual gratification without any love involved then it would be logical to conclude that a person could feel violated.
That just blew my mind! A world where both love and sex are both required for the entitlement! Where sex without love is taboo or unheard of. 8O


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24 Jan 2013, 12:51 pm

Gorilla feminism? I do believe the some primates have proto-societal structures.

However we should be cautious when comparing with human abstract concepts.

Behaviors can be extremely transient (even in humans). In this case they are reacting to the scenario that they are in, and much of it is fairly typical. It doesn't mean they hold a view or would be morally consistent in a different scenario. There is some evidence of empathetic response, but also empathy is selective (as in humans), and also hormones are powerful enough to mask these emotions.

On the whole I would say Gorillas are among the least violent of primates. People say that Bonobos are less violent, what they are actually doing is managing their aggression with sex.



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24 Jan 2013, 12:57 pm

^^^ Perhaps men should masturbate more to manage their aggression!It might explain why I'm not so agressive! :lol: I know tmi!


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24 Jan 2013, 1:00 pm

Well, here is an article on The Male Sense of Entitlement to Sex

http://francoistremblay.wordpress.com/2 ... nt-to-sex/

Quote:
..... men, fitting in their gender role and feeling biological urges, feel entitled to sex with women. This is not just the purview of a small minority. The lure of sexual entitlement is very, very strong, and even entraps well-meaning men (including atheists, anarchists and antinatalists who otherwise hold respectful egalitarian beliefs towards women). This is not overly surprising, since we live in a society which is drenched in the evaluation of women primarily as sex objects, whatever culture or sub-culture you live in.


I know that she's not trying to be funny, but I can't read this stuff without laughing out loud. We established above that sex is not an entitlement, and Feminists know this. But they keep using the buzzword "sexual entitlement", the same way that Republicans keep accusing President Obama of being a "Socialist."

She should at least give men who are homosexuals, asexuals, and priests credit for not wanting sex with women. But, no. Men, with their desire for sex with women, are no better than flies attracted to fly paper. Even men who are atheists, anarchists, and antinatalists (what the heck is that?), and who have been indoctrinated to know better, are still the same as primitive beasts, dragging their knuckles, their tongues hanging out, while looking for an innocent woman to ruin.

Quote:
..... Of course I understand where this sense of entitlement comes from.

Of course she does. :roll:

Quote:
..... For most men with a libido, sex is as salient a fact as eating, sleeping and breathing,

While using the word "salient" does make her look smart, sex would be more salient than breathing and sleeping. Eating might be more salient, if it were a particularly good meal.

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..... and failure to obtain sex may push one to believe that not being able to obtain sex is a form of social oppression

Well, I think that it is.

Quote:
..... (it is not an original deduction that woman-haters must be sexually frustrated or sexually repressed). In the worse cases, mostly MRAs, complex systems of beliefs about a female conspiracy to withdraw sex, and hierarchies of fuckability (“alphas”/”betas”/”omegas”), are developed....

I gather that there is something of a war going on between Feminists and Mens Rights Activists. But, they seem to carry on like 13-year-olds who are secretly in love with each other, while pretending not to like each other.

Quote:
... even if it was true that men were entitled to sex, it would be undesirable to implement it, since it would entail rape. If we have to choose between widespread rape and some woman-hating men not getting sex (unless they pay for it, but prostitution is not much better), I’m gonna go with the latter

Feminists always seem to invoke "rape", and feminists also oppose prostitution for some reason.

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.... As far as I can see, all woman-hating is backed and fueled by this entitlement.

We've established above, and Feminists know, that the entitlement doesn't exist. Therefore, "all woman-hating is backed and fueled by" something that doesn't exist.

Quote:
.... we also know that woman-hating, and the sex entitlement, are not the inevitable result of human nature. While there has never actually been any matriarchal society in history (even advocates of “matriarchal” societies admit that it is really egalitarianism they are talking about), there have been many egalitarian or near-egalitarian societies (see Societies Without Government for some examples) where women lived on a roughly equal footing with men.

More pining for the good old days of our hunter-gatherer ancestors.

Quote:
... The more stratified a society is, and the more of an emphasis a society puts on gender roles and the monogamous family as an isolated unit, the more likely there is to be woman-hatred. Woman-hatred has to start with male perception of the female as a subordinate Other. In our societies, this happens because the male is raised in an environment where the male perspective is used almost exclusively and where females are devalued and objectified. All the way from children’s fairy tales to pornography, men are portrayed as subjects and women are portrayed as objects, objects which are generally only valuable if they are of use to men.

This just gets sillier and sillier.

Quote:
... when you pipe up and say that men are not entitled to sex from women, you get accused of being a bigot against men. But it is not bigoted to say that men are not entitled to sex any more than it is bigoted to say that men are not entitled to a free helicopter. Sure it would make many men happy to get a free helicopter, but hedonism (while it has its merits as part of a personal orientation) is not a sound basis for a society.

No. When you pipe up and say "men are not entitled to sex from women", you seem to be wanting to rub it in. So, we're not entitled to sex from women. Does that mean that we should go and get sex from goats instead?

Quote:
... I am not denying that sexuality is a human need.

A "need", but not an "entitlement"

The rest of her essay just descends into absolute silliness.



Last edited by ArrantPariah on 24 Jan 2013, 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ann2011
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24 Jan 2013, 1:25 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
We're entitled to look, aren't we? Otherwise, why do women dress sexy? Just for the sake of getting old men in trouble with their wives and other Feminists?

If women are entitled to dress sexy, then we should at least be entitled to look.

i wouldn't disrespect my boyfriend by checking out a man that walked by or something. it wouldn't matter how he was dressed. it isn't every person that stares at other people when in the company of their mate, so it's definitely not an uncontrollable instinct. so i'd question why a person would choose to be disrespectful instead of thinking of their partner's feelings. there are plenty of times when alone that a person could do all the looking that they want, so it seems unnecessary to hurt someone's feelings just to get a good look.

I'll admit that if a really hot well presented guy walked by me and my boyfriend, I might do a double-take for a second, but I would never stare. That would make my b/f feel awful.
Even if I was alone, I wouldn't stare. I have no idea why they are dressed the way they are and I wouldn't assume that they are receptive of staring just because of the way they are dressed.



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24 Jan 2013, 1:27 pm

Look but don't touch. :lol:


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androbot2084
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24 Jan 2013, 1:29 pm

Liberated women love to talk about guys.



Jono
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24 Jan 2013, 1:29 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Well, here is an article on The Male Sense of Entitlement to Sex

http://francoistremblay.wordpress.com/2 ... nt-to-sex/


That is from a rad-fem blog and I don't think sex-positive feminists would agree for instance. But wow, so does that mean women are allowed to desire sex but men aren't because they're not "entitled"?



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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24 Jan 2013, 2:26 pm

Arrant you should check out this:

http://lightariel.businesscatalyst.com/ ... nd-schisms

It explains how isms and schisms (ideologies) corrupt thinking. Ideologies mimic legitimate thinking and corrupt the mind. They cause you not to think. You just accept the ideology and it becomes your official creed which leads to a divide among men (and women.) Ideologies lead to thought failure.



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24 Jan 2013, 2:26 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGNOwCzpq3E&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/youtube]

This lady put the fun in my kind of feminism,I watched her movies as a kid and she throughly corrupted me :lol: :twisted:


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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24 Jan 2013, 2:28 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
In marriage sex is a privilege not a right or entitlement if men marry just for sex they shouldn't get married in the first place. The catch 22 with religions such as christianity and islam is that sex before marriage is forbidden regardless of those natural urges and they get married just for that just they aren't sinning and it leads to unstable marriages.

The way I see it is, most people marry with this idea they will be with one person and this person will have sex with them more than they might expect if they would have if they were single. That's one of the perks of the deal. So, people should consider this carefully. If they aren't interested in sex they should make sure the person they are going to marry is not interested too. To pair someone who has a high sex drive with someone who hasn't much of one at all is unfair to both parties. At least it looks that way to me. It's not a matter of marrying just for sex and neither should force themselves on the partner. Basic compatibility should not be overlooked as very important for the relationship to work.
If I ever get married Ill make sure we are both equally compatable I do have a fairly high libido but I would want my mate to feel comfortable as well.

I would do the same.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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24 Jan 2013, 2:31 pm

Misslizard wrote:
This lady put the fun in my kind of feminism,I watched her movies as a kid and she throughly corrupted me :lol: :twisted:

So you admit to being a feminist? Brave! I am not an "ist." I am just a "me."



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24 Jan 2013, 2:41 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
The feminist who sees where his eyes are going wags her finger at him, scowls, and says "You're not entitled, Buster!"

I don't think that's a proper analogy. It's just rude behaviour on the part of the husband, both to the one being observed and to the wife whose probably not interested in her husband's wandering thoughts.


We're entitled to look, aren't we? Otherwise, why do women dress sexy? Just for the sake of getting old men in trouble with their wives and other Feminists?

If women are entitled to dress sexy, then we should at least be entitled to look.

i wouldn't disrespect my boyfriend by checking out a man that walked by or something. it wouldn't matter how he was dressed. it isn't every person that stares at other people when in the company of their mate, so it's definitely not an uncontrollable instinct. so i'd question why a person would choose to be disrespectful instead of thinking of their partner's feelings. there are plenty of times when alone that a person could do all the looking that they want, so it seems unnecessary to hurt someone's feelings just to get a good look.

This is so true. Consideration is important. Respect your partner's feelings above everything else!



androbot2084
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24 Jan 2013, 2:44 pm

Who cares about a jealous persons feelings?



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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24 Jan 2013, 2:48 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
Who cares about a jealous persons feelings?

You should, if it's your partner! The whole point of having a partner is to feel that connection otherwise might as well be alone. Right?