Gay Marriage.

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ascan
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07 May 2007, 9:05 am

mouapp wrote:

ascan wrote:

Evidence points to IQ being correlated with race, too. Why shouldn't it be? It would seem rather odd if it wasn't, wouldn't it, considering the many other differences that can be correlated with race?

what ive never understood is why a number makes anyone better than a number, a friend of mine allwase bragged abut his IQ but recently dropped out of high school and is remembered as a complete idiot

That particular number is one measure of a person's suitability for certain employment. For example, if you were to give properly administered tests to, say, a group of surgeons, then you'd probably find that for most of them that particular number was over 130. Once you know that you can do various things with it, as your society already does under a different name.

666
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07 May 2007, 3:23 pm

ascan wrote:

Evidence points to IQ being correlated with race, too.

I'd like to see this "evidence." Because IQ tests are biased toward English speakers, it's hard for immigrants to do well on them, which lead many people in the first half of the twentieth century to think "gee whiz, Polaks and Africans sure are dumb, look at how poorly they did on our tests!" This was used to justify racism during the civil rights movement, and... apparently it's still being used to justify racism today.

skafather84
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07 May 2007, 3:40 pm

666 wrote:

ascan wrote:

Evidence points to IQ being correlated with race, too.

which is why i suggested mismeasure of man to them....because it debunks that racist garbage. it was also used as a way of keeping immigrants from making it into the country.

binet never intended the IQ test to be an absolute measure of intellegence but rather a measure of where learning disabled french speaking kids were. this was later translated to english, perverted, and used to judge everyone on how "smart" they are. what's sad is that binet specifically spoke out against such use of his test beyond mentally ret*d kids and it was applied to everyone and applied in racist manners....and apparently still is today.

and this is why i didn't bother to concede in not saying bigot, racist or BS....because it is bigoted racist BS.

ascan
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07 May 2007, 4:24 pm

666 wrote:

ascan wrote:

Evidence points to IQ being correlated with race, too.

Well, you don't have to look far if you're interested, even though people are obviously not too keen on engaging in, or publishing such research due to the intimidation they're likely to receive. As for the English language bias, that's an oft-quoted favourite, and highlights more the lack of a credible argument those who state there can be no correlation between race and IQ have. Do you think the French write their IQ tests in English, for example?

There's stuff you can find on Ashkenazi Jews that's interesting. They're a group of people with particularly high average IQ. You can find plenty on the relatively-poor performance in IQ tests of subsaharan Africans, too. I can't offer proof, so to speak, but as plenty of non-cognitive differences between people from different parts of the world are recognised that are related to natural selection, it stands to reason that there should be cognitive ones, too, especially considering how complicated the human brain is, and how important it is to our survival.

As I said, I can't offer proof, only that it is a valid area for research and discussion. Here's some stuff on Ashkenazi jews:

http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/articles/media/2006_06_17_thenewrepublic.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&list_uids=16867211&cmd=Retrieve&indexed=google

ascan
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07 May 2007, 4:29 pm

skafather84 wrote:

...binet never intended the IQ test to be an absolute measure of intellegence but rather a measure of where learning disabled french speaking kids were.

Indeed, most of us know that IQs aren't absolute measures. They can only be relative measures based about a mean. So, just as we can measure the relative deficits of learning disabled kids within a population, so we can measure how certain other groups compare with that mean.

sigholdaccountlost
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08 May 2007, 10:33 am

How did we get from gay marriage to IQ numbers?

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ascan
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08 May 2007, 1:27 pm

sigholdaccountlost wrote:

How did we get from gay marriage to IQ numbers?

It was that notorious thread derailer skafather84!

skafather84 wrote:

...the book i recommended goes to great lengths to show how measuring intelligence has been used and skewed in various racist ways ...

I'm completely innocent, of course. :wink:

sigholdaccountlost
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09 May 2007, 5:05 am

Please explain yor views, uubermaster

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TheMidnightJudge
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17 May 2007, 2:38 pm

Why should I care if a gay couple gets married? Let them be married. Being against gay marriage is being against gay rights. To me, it's the same as banning black marriage(I'd say "African American" except some Blacks come from countries other than Africa. Thank you Maddox) or Jewish marriage.
What happened to all people being equal and having equal rights?

And to those who use religion to justify hate... Are you saying God created these people, but he hates them? He created a specific type of creation that he hates? I would sooner say God hates people in general than say God hates gays.

And if people will not tolerate holy matrimony, they could develope a marriage equivalent for gays so they at least get the benefits.

Sopho
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17 May 2007, 2:42 pm

You don't have to be Christian (or even religious) to get married anyway. Plenty of atheists and agnostic people get married. They can still call it marriage and it's exactly the same. Therefore I see no reason why gay couples can't. Religious arguments do not stand.

666
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17 May 2007, 5:17 pm

TheMidnightJudge wrote:

holy matrimony

Holy matrimony... See, there's the problem. Secular matrimony. Christians need to realize that marriage isn't always about their obsolete backwards religion.

Sopho
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17 May 2007, 5:23 pm

666 wrote:

TheMidnightJudge wrote:

holy matrimony

Holy matrimony... See, there's the problem. Secular matrimony. Christians need to realize that marriage isn't always about their obsolete backwards religion.

Exactly. Marriage does not have to mean religious marriage. My mum and my step dad aren't religious, they got married in a registry office. It's still marriage though. I never hear any Christians complaining about how atheists get married, or suggesting that the atheists should have to call it something else. What a load of bollocks. I should be allowed to marry someone of any sex I like, as long as they consent to that.

skafather84
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17 May 2007, 5:29 pm

TheMidnightJudge wrote:

well....see...god's creation is perfect except for when they exercise the free will given to them in sucha way that the humans in charge of god's church say makes god cry.

god sheds a tear every time two guys have butt sex. that's the real reason why we're losing our wetlands and why the waters are rising....not because of the government mismanaging the ecosystem and abusing it...it's because homosexual anal sex makes god cry....he loves heterosexual anal sex so long as it's the female getting it up the butt.

one_man_army
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19 May 2007, 11:52 pm

lowfreq50 wrote:

Should gay couples be able to legally marry?

My opinion:

This is one of those "slippery slope" issues. If we were to allow other forms of marriage than the standard man-woman type, where would it stop? Ok, we can have same-sex marriage, so can we have polygamy? What about marriage of kids under the age of consent? What about an adult marrying a minor? And for all you furries out there, why not marry an animal?

I don't believe gays should get married. That will ruin tradition. A marriage should always be between a man and a woman. Also, if gay marriage were to be allowed then people will start demanding other forms of marriages to the point where it becomes ridiculous.

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skafather84
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19 May 2007, 11:59 pm

one_man_army wrote:

lowfreq50 wrote:

it won't ruin tradition. the tradition is sharing legal responsibility in a monogamous relationship. those legal rights should be open to both homosexuals as well as heterosexuals. if it's just a religious ceremony then there shouldn't be legislation on it and there should be no benefits or otherwise to go with marriage. since there is legislation, it's unfair to deny that to every human being looking to engage in a monogamous relationship.

it's heterosexual relations aren't even traditional. men have been pounding man-ass since the time of the spartans and old persians and moors. the only thing that isn't tradition is the openness that is now being experienced with homosexuality but this isn't to be viewed as simply a degradation of traditions or morals or whatever. it's a move towards viewing each other as (relative) equals. just like giving blacks equal rights. and yes, blacks faced much worse persecution in the 1950s than homosexuals do today but also, i'd like to hope that maybe we've moved forward a little as a society and the inequity faced today by homosexuals should be viewed as unacceptable by TODAY'S standards rather than the hate from the 1950s and 60s being used as the standard for bigotry.

Sopho
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20 May 2007, 8:11 am

one_man_army wrote:

Wow what a s**t opinion.
Why is tradition so important? Should we have never let black people marry white people then? Saying it should always be between a man and a woman is sexist. And what other forms of marriage do you think people would start demanding? Be more specific.

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