"It's not a Muslim ban! It's working out very nicely!"

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Kraichgauer
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04 Feb 2017, 11:26 pm

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I think there are people who were turned off by Trump's pandering to racists, and his blatant ignorance, but who thought at the time he was the lesser of two evils, and now have buyer's remorse.

That's not who I'm talking about. I'm talking about people who love Donald Trump and would love to wear hats and t-shirts and all that saying that, but are afraid of what might be done against them of they do. Your statement right there, pandering to racists. Who wants to take a chance on being viewed as a racist by someone with the seething hatred that's displayed?

But whose fault is that? Trump certainly didn't discourage racist support all that much during his campaign, and I don't recall seeing everyday Trump supporters speaking out against racists.

It seems like you are advocating that all Trump supporters should be verbally and psychically attacked.

Not at all. But the reputations of bad Trump supporters have tainted that of all Trump supporters.

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Kraichgauer
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04 Feb 2017, 11:37 pm

Mikah wrote:

jrjones9933 wrote:

I still have not gotten an answer to how much risk people will accept from refugees. I suspect the answer is none, but people don't want to admit it.

I happily admit to none. I also don't understand this modern dogma that the only moral response to a refugee crisis is to bring them to a country thousands of miles away from their place of origin and let them set up shop for the rest of their lives, often at great economic expense. Traditionally, refugees would stop at the first safe haven they land in. Traditionally, refugees would go home when the war is over. Not today for some reason.

A perfectly sane and moral response is to help countries (like Turkey with regards to the Syrian war) set up clean, safe refugee camps (remember them?) for the refugees to live in temporarily. Make sure they have enough food, water and clothing, hire local security to maintain law and order, hire teachers to help keep the children reasonably educated and train any grown men in construction, agriculture and other useful skills which will be desperately needed in a country ravaged by war.

I have no doubt this would work out much cheaper in the long run too.

There have been plenty of instances in history when refugees never returned home, but remained in the host countries to eventually become just another element among the citizenry. Case in point being the Palatine Germans in the 17th and early 18yh centuries. Fleeing from depravations of the French army that had invaded the south middle Rhine country of Germany, who had burned Protestant towns, and impressed the young men into the French army, the Palatine Germans first fled to England, and from there, many went to Ireland (Stephen Colbert had a Palatine ancestor hearkening back to this era). Others were diverted to America, becoming the Pennsylvania Dutch. Then during the Napoleonic era, the Russian Czar had opened new lands along the Black Sea to Palatine Germans (my ancestors, in fact), some of whom stayed there, even after many of them later left for America when the Russian welcome soured. The Palatine Germans were one such group of refugees who never returned home, and they were hardly the only group to do so.

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EzraS
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05 Feb 2017, 12:07 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I think there are people who were turned off by Trump's pandering to racists, and his blatant ignorance, but who thought at the time he was the lesser of two evils, and now have buyer's remorse.

But whose fault is that? Trump certainly didn't discourage racist support all that much during his campaign, and I don't recall seeing everyday Trump supporters speaking out against racists.

It seems like you are advocating that all Trump supporters should be verbally and psychically attacked.

Not at all. But the reputations of bad Trump supporters have tainted that of all Trump supporters.

In that case, do you also believe that the reputations and actions of bad anti-Trump demonstrators have tainted all of those who are anti-Trump? Are they all tainted by the death threats, the rioting, the vandalism, the looting, the arson, spiting on police officers, attacking people and the like?

Kraichgauer
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05 Feb 2017, 1:21 am

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I think there are people who were turned off by Trump's pandering to racists, and his blatant ignorance, but who thought at the time he was the lesser of two evils, and now have buyer's remorse.

But whose fault is that? Trump certainly didn't discourage racist support all that much during his campaign, and I don't recall seeing everyday Trump supporters speaking out against racists.

It seems like you are advocating that all Trump supporters should be verbally and psychically attacked.

Not at all. But the reputations of bad Trump supporters have tainted that of all Trump supporters.

Of course I do. I really wish the anarchists would stop showing up at peaceful protests, because it's the initial protesters who get accused of the criminal outrages.

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EzraS
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05 Feb 2017, 2:30 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I think there are people who were turned off by Trump's pandering to racists, and his blatant ignorance, but who thought at the time he was the lesser of two evils, and now have buyer's remorse.

But whose fault is that? Trump certainly didn't discourage racist support all that much during his campaign, and I don't recall seeing everyday Trump supporters speaking out against racists.

It seems like you are advocating that all Trump supporters should be verbally and psychically attacked.

Not at all. But the reputations of bad Trump supporters have tainted that of all Trump supporters.

Of course I do. I really wish the anarchists would stop showing up at peaceful protests, because it's the initial protesters who get accused of the criminal outrages.

The anarchists are just as much a part of the anti-Trump protest as the rest. And the anarchists alone haven't done all the bad stuff. Far as I see there's one big symbiosis of violent people carrying on. I hear their next target is the Superbowl.

Kraichgauer
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05 Feb 2017, 2:39 am

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I think there are people who were turned off by Trump's pandering to racists, and his blatant ignorance, but who thought at the time he was the lesser of two evils, and now have buyer's remorse.

But whose fault is that? Trump certainly didn't discourage racist support all that much during his campaign, and I don't recall seeing everyday Trump supporters speaking out against racists.

It seems like you are advocating that all Trump supporters should be verbally and psychically attacked.

Not at all. But the reputations of bad Trump supporters have tainted that of all Trump supporters.

Of course I do. I really wish the anarchists would stop showing up at peaceful protests, because it's the initial protesters who get accused of the criminal outrages.

Why couldn't have anarchists have done all that?
And according to who? Drudge?

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EzraS
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05 Feb 2017, 3:26 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Why couldn't have anarchists have done all that?

The anarchists are anti-Trumps so I don't really see what difference it makes.
Has Hillary or Obama or anyone in the forefront of the anti-Trumps spoken out against the anarchists?

Kraichgauer wrote:

And according to who? Drudge?

According to all over the internet. Doesn't make it true, but it seems to show what's expected from the anti-Trumps. Tomorrow will tell.

cyberdad
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05 Feb 2017, 3:28 am

EzraS wrote:

Trump supporters can be divided into two groups
1 - those who "want" to get in front of the camera or on social media and spout mindless nonsense about immigrants, gays and islam
2 - those who are tolerant of bigotry but would prefer to not discuss their views in public in case they get labelled racist, homophobic or islamophobic

EzraS
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05 Feb 2017, 3:37 am

cyberdad wrote:

EzraS wrote:

And how would you divide the anti-Trumps?

cyberdad
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05 Feb 2017, 4:32 am

EzraS wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

EzraS wrote:

And how would you divide the anti-Trumps?

anti-Trumps...anyone with a conscience

EzraS
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05 Feb 2017, 5:01 am

cyberdad wrote:

EzraS wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

EzraS wrote:

And how would you divide the anti-Trumps?

anti-Trumps...anyone with a conscience

Anyone with a conscience who participates in making death threats, the rioting, the vandalism, the looting, the arson, spiting on police officers, attacking people and the like. They've blown their cover as supposedly being the good guys. Nobody but them believes that about them anymore.

EzraS
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05 Feb 2017, 5:03 am

I was in a convenience store earlier and the clerk was going on about how there's going to be a protest at the Superbowl, and the customer who didn't seem the east bit interested, said something I didn't quite make out, and the clerk started going bananas. "People think we're about tolerance! But we're not about tolerance! We're about fighting fascism! And from that point forward I wasn't able to keep track of his ranting. And when the customer got the hell out of there, the clerk started in on my cousin, who was only able to shut him up by telling him I'm autistic and he was probably upsetting me. Good grief lol. I should have filmed that.

jrjones9933
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05 Feb 2017, 7:51 am

EzraS wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

EzraS wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

EzraS wrote:

And how would you divide the anti-Trumps?

anti-Trumps...anyone with a conscience

This is a very notable exchange. The first part is solidly on point. It's pretty clear where things go off track.

I think we on the leftward side need to concede that we can't make absurd pronouncements work. We get busted, and feel ashamed of our behavior, and apologize. That doesn't happen nearly as often, relative to the volume of absurdities, on the other side.

If we go to the playground, we will lose more than we win.

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jrjones9933
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05 Feb 2017, 7:54 am

EzraS wrote:

It's on tape. I might lodge a complaint and get them fired, myself.

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Kraichgauer
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05 Feb 2017, 11:25 am

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Why couldn't have anarchists have done all that?

The anarchists are anti-Trumps so I don't really see what difference it makes.
Has Hillary or Obama or anyone in the forefront of the anti-Trumps spoken out against the anarchists?

Kraichgauer wrote:

And according to who? Drudge?

According to all over the internet. Doesn't make it true, but it seems to show what's expected from the anti-Trumps. Tomorrow will tell.

The difference is, there are peaceful Anti-Trump protesters, then there are anarchists who think they can cure any problem with violence and anarchy. There is a clear distinction.
And anything on the internet has as much credibility as something written on the inside of a men's room stall.

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EzraS
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05 Feb 2017, 11:44 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

The difference is, there are peaceful Anti-Trump protesters, then there are anarchists who think they can cure any problem with violence and anarchy. There is a clear distinction.

I haven't seen much that looked all that peaceful. Even if there isn't outright vandalism and psychical stuff, there's lots of shouting and general commotion. They really plagued the airports, made things really difficult on everyone traveling. Total public nuisance stuff.

Kraichgauer wrote:

And anything on the internet has as much credibility as something written on the inside of a men's room stall.

Anything? Like the ban, like the judge putting a stay on the ban etc? I'm talking about news feeds. I'm not stupid you know. Here:

Donald Trump protesters in Houston march toward Super Bowl Live downtown - Houston Chronicle
http://www.chron.com/houston/article/Do ... 908735.php

Plenty of others.

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