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auntblabby
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17 Dec 2021, 2:01 am

that they are winning.



AngelRho
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17 Dec 2021, 3:37 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
The promise of communism is equality for all, it’s focus on special victim classes. The reality of communist economics is that once you force everyone to be equal, you make them all equally poor.


I think you need to be careful in projecting what the goals of communism were at the turn of the 20th century when much of the manifestos were written and how global landscape looked back then. Poverty and class and the rule of despotic royal monarchs who governed colonial states were a reality back then.

Communism and socialism are a distant memory in 2021, please stop trying to spread right wing conservative propaganda which conflates socially conscious and equitable political movements with communism and socialism. This is a relic from the 1950s which was used to frighten conservative christian families into voting republican. All labor based parties in the English speaking world including your democrats are neo-liberal capitalists in their outlook. Big business profits regardless who is in power.

Well, the problem really is that big business profits either because of who is in power or in spite of who is in power, not because they actually achieve anything. That’s not capitalism. It’s collectivism. Look no further than the too-big-to-fail bailouts of Government Motors. And I don’t care one iota about Republicans. They’re all just part of the problem.

Critical race theory demonizes white people specifically along with other high-achieving folks for no other reason than skin color. It is bankrupt of reason. And it happens to be heavily influenced by Marx. There’s nothing socially conscious or equitable about it. It is the opposite of equitable because it demands relinquishing the hegemony to victim classes who are identified by race rather than merit. True equity is achieved when all persons are allowed the same opportunity to produce things and benefit from their own realization of ideas. Discrimination based on race or skin color is perhaps the highest level of collectivism there is, and CRT actively encourages racism rather than stopping it.


Funny, I thought it was just a matter of recalling how a dominant group - in this case, whites - had used their position in the past to oppress for economic and social reasons those groups - such as blacks - who were not in power. That's called unvarnished and straight forward history.
If you have a different take on the historic record, I'd like to hear it.

You don’t seem to know much about CRT. If you knew anything about it, you’d know that you’re a racist for even talking about it.



cyberdad
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17 Dec 2021, 3:59 am

AngelRho wrote:
You don’t seem to know much about CRT. If you knew anything about it, you’d know that you’re a racist for even talking about it.


Yes this is exactly the republican parent argument. it's racist to talk about race? It's also a great way to sweep racism/history under the carpet.



AngelRho
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17 Dec 2021, 4:07 am

cyberdad wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
You don’t seem to know much about CRT. If you knew anything about it, you’d know that you’re a racist for even talking about it.


Yes this is exactly the republican parent argument. it's racist to talk about race? It's also a great way to sweep racism/history under the carpet.

Are you a person of color? If not, then this reeks of self-righteousness.



auntblabby
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17 Dec 2021, 4:15 am

so only POC have the right to complain about racism?



cyberdad
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17 Dec 2021, 4:28 am

AngelRho wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
You don’t seem to know much about CRT. If you knew anything about it, you’d know that you’re a racist for even talking about it.


Yes this is exactly the republican parent argument. it's racist to talk about race? It's also a great way to sweep racism/history under the carpet.

Are you a person of color? If not, then this reeks of self-righteousness.


You can't have freedom of speech and then claim some topics are taboo

You can't blame cancel culture when the movement against teaching racism in schools is a form of cancellation



auntblabby
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17 Dec 2021, 4:31 am

^^^BINGO!! :idea:



AngelRho
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17 Dec 2021, 7:34 am

auntblabby wrote:
so only POC have the right to complain about racism?

Yes, according to CRT.

To be more accurate, it’s not racist to complain about racism. It’s just that POC have had to drink from the firehose of white people complaining about racism for so many decades if not more than a century. You’re being unintentionally racist when your complaints about racism end up being nothing more than self-serving rhetoric. In other words, white people only complain about racism to make themselves look good. And yes, ALL white people. The CRT argument is that if you are white, you play a role in systemic racism.



AngelRho
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17 Dec 2021, 7:51 am

cyberdad wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
You don’t seem to know much about CRT. If you knew anything about it, you’d know that you’re a racist for even talking about it.


Yes this is exactly the republican parent argument. it's racist to talk about race? It's also a great way to sweep racism/history under the carpet.

Are you a person of color? If not, then this reeks of self-righteousness.


You can't have freedom of speech and then claim some topics are taboo

You can't blame cancel culture when the movement against teaching racism in schools is a form of cancellation

Ummm…that’s beside the point. I’m not making an argument against cancel culture, etc. CRT does not allow white people to discuss racism. All white people ARE racist. All white people ARE the problem. You mentioned sweeping racism and history under the carpet—well, that’s EXACTLY what white people are doing by discussing it. You’re feeding POC whatever you think they want to hear so they’ll shut up. You think CRT favors freedom of speech? Any time you, as a white person, engage in a discussion about racism, even if you are against racism, you are speaking against racism from a position of privilege, and that makes you a hypocrite.



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17 Dec 2021, 4:03 pm

AngelRho wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
The promise of communism is equality for all, it’s focus on special victim classes. The reality of communist economics is that once you force everyone to be equal, you make them all equally poor.


I think you need to be careful in projecting what the goals of communism were at the turn of the 20th century when much of the manifestos were written and how global landscape looked back then. Poverty and class and the rule of despotic royal monarchs who governed colonial states were a reality back then.

Communism and socialism are a distant memory in 2021, please stop trying to spread right wing conservative propaganda which conflates socially conscious and equitable political movements with communism and socialism. This is a relic from the 1950s which was used to frighten conservative christian families into voting republican. All labor based parties in the English speaking world including your democrats are neo-liberal capitalists in their outlook. Big business profits regardless who is in power.

Well, the problem really is that big business profits either because of who is in power or in spite of who is in power, not because they actually achieve anything. That’s not capitalism. It’s collectivism. Look no further than the too-big-to-fail bailouts of Government Motors. And I don’t care one iota about Republicans. They’re all just part of the problem.

Critical race theory demonizes white people specifically along with other high-achieving folks for no other reason than skin color. It is bankrupt of reason. And it happens to be heavily influenced by Marx. There’s nothing socially conscious or equitable about it. It is the opposite of equitable because it demands relinquishing the hegemony to victim classes who are identified by race rather than merit. True equity is achieved when all persons are allowed the same opportunity to produce things and benefit from their own realization of ideas. Discrimination based on race or skin color is perhaps the highest level of collectivism there is, and CRT actively encourages racism rather than stopping it.


Funny, I thought it was just a matter of recalling how a dominant group - in this case, whites - had used their position in the past to oppress for economic and social reasons those groups - such as blacks - who were not in power. That's called unvarnished and straight forward history.
If you have a different take on the historic record, I'd like to hear it.

You don’t seem to know much about CRT. If you knew anything about it, you’d know that you’re a racist for even talking about it.


That sounds like Orwellian double speak on your part.
You people on the political and religious right have made this your new bogeyman, as you failed to stop your old bogeymen: civil rights, interracial marriage, and same sex marriage.


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17 Dec 2021, 4:11 pm

This guy is talking about the senario that you are talking about.


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AngelRho
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17 Dec 2021, 5:00 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
The promise of communism is equality for all, it’s focus on special victim classes. The reality of communist economics is that once you force everyone to be equal, you make them all equally poor.


I think you need to be careful in projecting what the goals of communism were at the turn of the 20th century when much of the manifestos were written and how global landscape looked back then. Poverty and class and the rule of despotic royal monarchs who governed colonial states were a reality back then.

Communism and socialism are a distant memory in 2021, please stop trying to spread right wing conservative propaganda which conflates socially conscious and equitable political movements with communism and socialism. This is a relic from the 1950s which was used to frighten conservative christian families into voting republican. All labor based parties in the English speaking world including your democrats are neo-liberal capitalists in their outlook. Big business profits regardless who is in power.

Well, the problem really is that big business profits either because of who is in power or in spite of who is in power, not because they actually achieve anything. That’s not capitalism. It’s collectivism. Look no further than the too-big-to-fail bailouts of Government Motors. And I don’t care one iota about Republicans. They’re all just part of the problem.

Critical race theory demonizes white people specifically along with other high-achieving folks for no other reason than skin color. It is bankrupt of reason. And it happens to be heavily influenced by Marx. There’s nothing socially conscious or equitable about it. It is the opposite of equitable because it demands relinquishing the hegemony to victim classes who are identified by race rather than merit. True equity is achieved when all persons are allowed the same opportunity to produce things and benefit from their own realization of ideas. Discrimination based on race or skin color is perhaps the highest level of collectivism there is, and CRT actively encourages racism rather than stopping it.


Funny, I thought it was just a matter of recalling how a dominant group - in this case, whites - had used their position in the past to oppress for economic and social reasons those groups - such as blacks - who were not in power. That's called unvarnished and straight forward history.
If you have a different take on the historic record, I'd like to hear it.

You don’t seem to know much about CRT. If you knew anything about it, you’d know that you’re a racist for even talking about it.


That sounds like Orwellian double speak on your part.
You people on the political and religious right have made this your new bogeyman, as you failed to stop your old bogeymen: civil rights, interracial marriage, and same sex marriage.

How privileged of you.



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17 Dec 2021, 5:29 pm

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... rn%20troll


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17 Dec 2021, 5:36 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll



AngelRho
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17 Dec 2021, 5:37 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
This guy is talking about the senario that you are talking about.


Pretty much this. A couple of things:

I’m not really into the whole blame everything on postmodernism thing. The best Pomo ever had to offer really culminated in some philosophical and artistic works back in the 1990s, which Peterson touches on, but it offers little beyond that. Aside from contributions from Derrida and more recent influences from Baudrillard, Pomo is dead. What we see now is significantly different, almost a complete reversion to Romanticism—but not authentic Romanticism, but an appropriation of it—and you can see it so clearly with what Disney has done with Star Wars and, best I can tell, with the new Matrix movie that’s about to hit.

I’m also not keen on Peterson as a spokesperson for conservatism. He’s about as much of a conservative as I am, so why he prefers speaking to a conservative audience I’ll never get.

The other nitpick is just the use of conservative and liberal labels as a whole. Conservatives have the fault wanting to maintain things as they are rather than pushing ahead. Progressives, or liberals, have the problem of preaching the virtues of moving forward while enacting and enforcing rather regressive policies. You would think almost the opposite. But a stride ahead or behind from liberals is what conservatives fight, and once power shifts in favor of conservatives they refuse to reverse damaging policies. So since they don’t actually espouse conservative values, why call them that? Labeling everyone a conservative Republican for opposing Democratic policies or a stupid liberal for opposing Republican policies is a bit much. They are only two sides of a different coin, and I’m ready for a new coin.

I think Peterson wants to view the world objectively, he’s just not ready to fully make that leap. I mostly agree with him.

What’s up with all the clickbait Peterson YouTube titles? I actually do enjoy listening to him, the clickbait is entertaining, but because I’ve gone down the “oh, what the heck” rabbit hole with clickbait, I’m getting immune to it.



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17 Dec 2021, 5:55 pm

AngelRho wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
The promise of communism is equality for all, it’s focus on special victim classes. The reality of communist economics is that once you force everyone to be equal, you make them all equally poor.


I think you need to be careful in projecting what the goals of communism were at the turn of the 20th century when much of the manifestos were written and how global landscape looked back then. Poverty and class and the rule of despotic royal monarchs who governed colonial states were a reality back then.

Communism and socialism are a distant memory in 2021, please stop trying to spread right wing conservative propaganda which conflates socially conscious and equitable political movements with communism and socialism. This is a relic from the 1950s which was used to frighten conservative christian families into voting republican. All labor based parties in the English speaking world including your democrats are neo-liberal capitalists in their outlook. Big business profits regardless who is in power.

Well, the problem really is that big business profits either because of who is in power or in spite of who is in power, not because they actually achieve anything. That’s not capitalism. It’s collectivism. Look no further than the too-big-to-fail bailouts of Government Motors. And I don’t care one iota about Republicans. They’re all just part of the problem.

Critical race theory demonizes white people specifically along with other high-achieving folks for no other reason than skin color. It is bankrupt of reason. And it happens to be heavily influenced by Marx. There’s nothing socially conscious or equitable about it. It is the opposite of equitable because it demands relinquishing the hegemony to victim classes who are identified by race rather than merit. True equity is achieved when all persons are allowed the same opportunity to produce things and benefit from their own realization of ideas. Discrimination based on race or skin color is perhaps the highest level of collectivism there is, and CRT actively encourages racism rather than stopping it.


Funny, I thought it was just a matter of recalling how a dominant group - in this case, whites - had used their position in the past to oppress for economic and social reasons those groups - such as blacks - who were not in power. That's called unvarnished and straight forward history.
If you have a different take on the historic record, I'd like to hear it.

You don’t seem to know much about CRT. If you knew anything about it, you’d know that you’re a racist for even talking about it.


That sounds like Orwellian double speak on your part.
You people on the political and religious right have made this your new bogeyman, as you failed to stop your old bogeymen: civil rights, interracial marriage, and same sex marriage.

How privileged of you.


Huh? Your response doesn't make any sense, especially since in the past you spoke of how you were involved in the gentrification of a poverty stricken neighborhood. As I'm just a starving artist worried about how I'm going to fulfill all my plans for Christmas, I can honestly say, of the two of us, it aint me who's privileged.


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