Disturbing Passages in Holy Books
My church loved this passage in the Bible about a poor widow donating “everything she had, all she had to live on” to the temple. I wonder why.
Mark 12:41-44:
It seems a bit careless of Jesus to highlight this as a good example. If people are having trouble providing for their own basic needs, they probably shouldn’t be donating money to places of worship.
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funeralxempire
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Why couldn't Jesus pull off the loaves and fishes trick with the donations? I thought he was all powerful, not some bloody hedge-wizard. If that's where the 'saviour' encounters his limits people might as well worry about preparing to save themselves.
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Maybe he was exhausted after engaging in an all-night orgy with his apostles. Who knows.
He does have a thing for poverty though, so maybe that’s part of it. Money - bad; poverty - good.
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“Tú, que me lees, ¿estás seguro de entender mi lenguaje?” — Jorge Luis Borges
Useful advice for parents at Deuteronomy 21:18-21:
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“Tú, que me lees, ¿estás seguro de entender mi lenguaje?” — Jorge Luis Borges
1 John 4:7-8
Authorized (King James) Version
"7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God;
and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."
To me This is Probably the Most Disturbing Passage in the
Bible As The Rest of the Book Proves in Many Verses That
The Version(S) of
'God' Described in the
Book is (are) NOT Love.
For Instance, Love That is
Real is Unconditional
(my Opinion);
Real Love
Surely Doesn't
Provide Limitations
Like, Believe i am God
or You Burn Forever in a Lake of Fire;
As of Course The Quran Goes Steps Further
in Beyond Psychopathic Intentions (For What
Psychopaths Are Not Able to Do) By Providing
Endless Skins to Burn Again Forever and Ever 'Amen' Per
A Much Worse Version of 'Hannibal The Cannibal' as at
Least that Torture Ends in Death...
Yet of Course, in John 14:12, By Story,
Jesus Suggests if You Really Believe
in Him, You Will Do Greater Works
To Improve
on What He
Didn't Do Before;
Namely: Unconditional Love.
No IFS, ANDS, OR Buts; There is
NO GOD oF UNConditional Love
in Either the Old or New Testament Yet
Hey, If Humans Can Do It, They Are Surely
Much Greater
Than That
Story Book
God; Still Human Yet
Greater oF LoVE iN Peace,
We May Really Do With SMiLes...
It Appears that the Ghost Authors
And Scribes At Least Made 'A Stab'
of Creating an Unconditional Loving Dude in the Bible;
Yet For Every Try, Someone Else Brought The Sadistic
Psychopath Back...
Or They Just
Bold Faced
'Trump' Lied;
That Too, No Big Surprise Now,
Considering So-Called 'Believers'
Today...
And Their
Orange Lying
Demagogue
They Follow
BlindFolded on '5th Avenue'...
Integrity, A Lost Biblical (And
Other Story) Cause For Thousands of Years...
When i think About the Folks Who Really Wrote the Bible,
i Think About The Old Dudes at the 'Hardee's Breakfast Club,'
Sitting Around a Table Talking About Killing Deer, and How They Just
Can't
Figure
Out
What Love Is;
Indeed A
Thousand
Year-Old Toxic
Patriarchal Tradition Continues
on and on and on Like A Cess Pool Fire...
Basically, The Bible Is Still Two Testaments
That Show How Scary Humans Can Try to Be;
Yet of Course, Now At Least, For Only What A Real Fool Will Believe;
The Good Cop Jesus is Okay With me; Yet 'They' Spoiled Him Rotten in A Cess Pool Indeed.
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I find 1 John 4:8 disturbing, too. My religion loved that scripture, but it often seemed gaslighty because it’s not like they hid the less savory parts of the Bible. They taught that it was ALL from God and beneficial (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Then you have to somehow convince yourself that stuff like stoning, genocide, corporal punishment, homophobia, the allowance of suffering, etc. is actually loving. Similarly. my church taught that shunning was a “loving arrangement” or a "loving provision." Combine this with being urged to stay in an abusive relationship with someone who is supposed to love you, what love is and isn’t becomes awfully confusing, complex, and, ultimately, underwhelming to say the least. It can be hard to determine the difference between love and hate, if there is one in this context.
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“Tú, que me lees, ¿estás seguro de entender mi lenguaje?” — Jorge Luis Borges
Considering, HiStory in ConTexT;
Dear Lord, How Blessed We aRe
Writing And Playing In Much
Improved Stories That
Are not Tribal Based
in Desert Scarcities
Where Huge Carrots and
Sticks Are Created to Subjugate,
Control, And Master Those Who Are
Ignorant to the The Guise of the Story to
Become Slaves to the Created Stories; Yep,
Basically
'Minions'
With Both
Most Despicable
Stories and Leaders too...
Is There A Story More Despicable
Than Torturing Someone Forever; In Short,
No, Not For Anyone
At Least Who Has
Any Real Compassion
For The General Disorder of the Human Condition...
There is Enough Hell and Heaven For Real on This
Planet Now to
Suffice
A Reality
Of Both Places Now...
'Eastern Philosophies' Have
Better Outcomes When the
Most Fortunate Ones Stay
Around to Lift Others Out of Real Flames...
Better than An Abusive 'Parent' in a Dusty Old Book...
Yet of Course, i Haven't Found Any Religion that isn't Flawed
in Some Significant Way; Hehe, Go Figure They All Come From The Human 'Condition'..
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
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Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !
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The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother:
3 And they committed whoredoms in Egypt; they committed whoredoms in their youth: there were their breasts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity.
4 And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah.
5 And Aholah played the harlot when she was mine; and she doted on her lovers, on the Assyrians her neighbours,
6 Which were clothed with blue, captains and rulers, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding upon horses.
7 Thus she committed her whoredoms with them, with all them that were the chosen men of Assyria, and with all on whom she doted: with all their idols she defiled herself.
8 Neither left she her whoredoms brought from Egypt: for in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the breasts of her virginity, and poured their whoredom upon her.
9 Wherefore I have delivered her into the hand of her lovers, into the hand of the Assyrians, upon whom she doted.
10 These discovered her nakedness: they took her sons and her daughters, and slew her with the sword: and she became famous among women; for they had executed judgment upon her.
11 And when her sister Aholibah saw this, she was more corrupt in her inordinate love than she, and in her whoredoms more than her sister in her whoredoms.
12 She doted upon the Assyrians her neighbours, captains and rulers clothed most gorgeously, horsemen riding upon horses, all of them desirable young men.
13 Then I saw that she was defiled, that they took both one way,
14 And that she increased her whoredoms: for when she saw men pourtrayed upon the wall, the images of the Chaldeans pourtrayed with vermilion,
15 Girded with girdles upon their loins, exceeding in dyed attire upon their heads, all of them princes to look to, after the manner of the Babylonians of Chaldea, the land of their nativity:
16 And as soon as she saw them with her eyes, she doted upon them, and sent messengers unto them into Chaldea.
17 And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them, and her mind was alienated from them.
18 So she discovered her whoredoms, and discovered her nakedness: then my mind was alienated from her, like as my mind was alienated from her sister.
19 Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt.
20 For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.
21 Thus thou calledst to remembrance the lewdness of thy youth, in bruising thy teats by the Egyptians for the paps of thy youth.
22 Therefore, O Aholibah, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will raise up thy lovers against thee, from whom thy mind is alienated, and I will bring them against thee on every side;
23 The Babylonians, and all the Chaldeans, Pekod, and Shoa, and Koa, and all the Assyrians with them: all of them desirable young men, captains and rulers, great lords and renowned, all of them riding upon horses.
24 And they shall come against thee with chariots, wagons, and wheels, and with an assembly of people, which shall set against thee buckler and shield and helmet round about: and I will set judgment before them, and they shall judge thee according to their judgments.
25 And I will set my jealousy against thee, and they shall deal furiously with thee: they shall take away thy nose and thine ears; and thy remnant shall fall by the sword: they shall take thy sons and thy daughters; and thy residue shall be devoured by the fire.
26 They shall also strip thee out of thy clothes, and take away thy fair jewels.
27 Thus will I make thy lewdness to cease from thee, and thy whoredom brought from the land of Egypt: so that thou shalt not lift up thine eyes unto them, nor remember Egypt any more.
28 For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will deliver thee into the hand of them whom thou hatest, into the hand of them from whom thy mind is alienated:
29 And they shall deal with thee hatefully, and shall take away all thy labour, and shall leave thee naked and bare: and the nakedness of thy whoredoms shall be discovered, both thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.
30 I will do these things unto thee, because thou hast gone a whoring after the heathen, and because thou art polluted with their idols.
31 Thou hast walked in the way of thy sister; therefore will I give her cup into thine hand.
32 Thus saith the Lord God; Thou shalt drink of thy sister's cup deep and large: thou shalt be laughed to scorn and had in derision; it containeth much.
33 Thou shalt be filled with drunkenness and sorrow, with the cup of astonishment and desolation, with the cup of thy sister Samaria.
34 Thou shalt even drink it and suck it out, and thou shalt break the sherds thereof, and pluck off thine own breasts: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God.
35 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast forgotten me, and cast me behind thy back, therefore bear thou also thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.
36 The Lord said moreover unto me; Son of man, wilt thou judge Aholah and Aholibah? yea, declare unto them their abominations;
37 That they have committed adultery, and blood is in their hands, and with their idols have they committed adultery, and have also caused their sons, whom they bare unto me, to pass for them through the fire, to devour them.
38 Moreover this they have done unto me: they have defiled my sanctuary in the same day, and have profaned my sabbaths.
39 For when they had slain their children to their idols, then they came the same day into my sanctuary to profane it; and, lo, thus have they done in the midst of mine house.
40 And furthermore, that ye have sent for men to come from far, unto whom a messenger was sent; and, lo, they came: for whom thou didst wash thyself, paintedst thy eyes, and deckedst thyself with ornaments,
41 And satest upon a stately bed, and a table prepared before it, whereupon thou hast set mine incense and mine oil.
42 And a voice of a multitude being at ease was with her: and with the men of the common sort were brought Sabeans from the wilderness, which put bracelets upon their hands, and beautiful crowns upon their heads.
43 Then said I unto her that was old in adulteries, Will they now commit whoredoms with her, and she with them?
44 Yet they went in unto her, as they go in unto a woman that playeth the harlot: so went they in unto Aholah and unto Aholibah, the lewd women.
45 And the righteous men, they shall judge them after the manner of adulteresses, and after the manner of women that shed blood; because they are adulteresses, and blood is in their hands.
46 For thus saith the Lord God; I will bring up a company upon them, and will give them to be removed and spoiled.
47 And the company shall stone them with stones, and dispatch them with their swords; they shall slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire.
48 Thus will I cause lewdness to cease out of the land, that all women may be taught not to do after your lewdness.
49 And they shall recompense your lewdness upon you, and ye shall bear the sins of your idols: and ye shall know that I am the Lord God.
Lots of good stuff in there, but especially
![Shocked 8O](./images/smilies/icon_eek.gif)
For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.
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Semen retentum venenum est
^ Some Bible writers were obsessed with penises. Maybe most of them.
The amount of time spent on circumcision alone is staggering. It reminds me of the stupid arguments I’ve heard to justify the pro-slavery scriptures in the Bible. People have said that since that was the custom people would’ve turned away from God if he outlawed it. They make similar claims about stoning people. I doubt adult males were eager to be circumcised, not that I’m a guy, and yet circumcision has a strong presence in the Bible.
On a totally different note, I was thinking yet again about how all of the verses which state that God is omnipotent and omniscient are incredibly disturbing when one truly thinks through what that means. God is supposedly sitting on his throne watching horrific things happen all the time and doing nothing about it. He’s just watching children being horribly abused, war crimes taking place, atrocities like the Holocaust occurring, people being tortured, people dying from famine and whatever else, etc. and chooses to do absolutely nothing even though he is more than capable of stopping it according to scripture (Matthew 19:26). To put it bluntly, it's the sort of behavior one would expect from a psychopath in a horror movie. There’s no way people would excuse similar behavior if humans were behind it. Rewarding people in the afterlife is not good enough for me.
Anyway, people act like God is some sort of victim here. "It's not his fault. He's not causing the suffering. It's because we're imperfect. Don't blame God." That sort of stuff.
Even if he didn't cause suffering for argument's sake*, he certainly could stop it which makes him complicit. He’s the most powerful being in the universe according to their theology and the Bible itself. The biblical reason why God allows suffering is laughably inadequate.
When I was grappling with "what if I'm wrong?" during the time that I started questioning my belief system, I finally came to the conclusion: even if I am wrong, that god is not worthy of my worship. In fact, worshiping him does not feel right. Then fully exploring the Bible and science made YHWH fade away altogether.
*Isaiah 45:7 seems to suggest that God does cause suffering. Of course, scriptures throughout this thread demonstrate that he has done so at various points, going with the narrative that the Bible is God’s Word.
I make weal and create woe;
I the Lord do all these things.
The following video contains an entertaining discussion of the issue of suffering. It’s about an atheist who agreed to study with JWs. The relevant bit starts at around 5:35 and goes through 9:45 although it’s all fascinating in my opinion. TheraminTrees has a lot of good content concerning cults and religion in general.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWeHB4qM1Hg
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“Tú, que me lees, ¿estás seguro de entender mi lenguaje?” — Jorge Luis Borges
I feel like we’ve not talked about Revelation enough. It’s so trippy I find it hard to even talk about. Also, I’m used to a very specific interpretation of the apocryphal work that does not reflect the views of most Christians or of the writer. Anyway, this passage at Revelation 14:6-9 talks about eternal torment for those who don’t worship God properly.
8 Then another angel, a second, followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her prostitution.”
9 Then another angel, a third, followed them, crying with a loud voice, “Those who worship the beast and its image and receive the brand on their foreheads or on their hands, 10 they will also drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured unmixed into the cup of his anger, and they will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image and for anyone who receives the brand of its name.”
Here’s a depiction of Babylon the Great on the beast that I grew up with:
![Image](https://i.postimg.cc/P5fqzBqz/89653-A7-B-84-CA-4-DC4-85-C0-B61374-DABEE0.webp)
Violent, disturbing imagery in verses 14-20:
17 Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he, too, had a sharp sickle. 18 Then another angel came out from the altar, the angel who has authority over fire, and he called with a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Use your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for its grapes are ripe.” 19 So the angel swung his sickle over the earth and gathered the vintage of the earth, and he threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood flowed from the winepress, as high as a horse’s bridle, for a distance of about one thousand six hundred stadia.
Another violent passage involving judgment, swords, scavenger birds, and Hell at Revelation 19:11-21:
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly in midheaven, “Come, gather for the great supper of God, 18 to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of the mighty, the flesh of horses and their riders—flesh of all, both free and slave, both small and great.” 19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to wage war against the rider on the horse and against his army. 20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed in its presence the signs by which he deceived those who had received the brand of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. 21 And the rest were killed by the sword of the rider on the horse, the sword that came from his mouth, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.
And they think the Bible is appropriate for children and that video game violence is bad.
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
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![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
Bronze age baseball sounds pretty brutal.
![Shocked 8O](./images/smilies/icon_eek.gif)
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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
You can't advance to the next level without stomping on a few Koopas.
Wholesome family entertainment.
![Heart :heart:](./images/smilies/icon_heart.gif)
It wasn’t that far back in history when people would take their kids to see hangings. It’s fascinating to me when people talk about declining moral values.
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“Tú, que me lees, ¿estás seguro de entender mi lenguaje?” — Jorge Luis Borges
Demon Possession. In the account at Mark 5:1-20, there’s a man who’s possessed by a demon. Apparently, it’s a bunch of demons (Legion). When Jesus casts them out of the man, they ask to be transplanted into ~2,000 pigs that are grazing nearby. It might relate to the fact that pigs were considered unclean. In any case, Jesus obliges them. For some inexplicable reason, they stampede down the hill and are drowned in the sea. It seems a bit unfair for the swineherds/farmers to lose their livelihood.
Due to all the passages about demon possession in the NT, some Christians, such as my aunt, don’t believe in mental illnesses like schizophrenia which leads to people failing to seek appropriate treatment sometimes. I was terrified of demons as a young child due to all the absurd stories I was told both in church and at home. It’s one of the reasons why I’m so fond of Carl Sagan’s The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark. Anyway, here is the entertaining story in Mark:
14 The swineherds ran off and told it in the city and in the country. Then people came to see what it was that had happened. 15 They came to Jesus and saw the man possessed by demons sitting there, clothed and in his right mind, the very man who had had the legion, and they became frightened. 16 Those who had seen what had happened to the man possessed by demons and to the swine reported it. 17 Then they began to beg Jesus to leave their neighborhood. 18 As he was getting into the boat, the man who had been possessed by demons begged him that he might be with him. 19 But Jesus refused and said to him, “Go home to your own people, and tell them how much the Lord has done for you and what mercy he has shown you.” 20 And he went away and began to proclaim in the Decapolis how much Jesus had done for him, and everyone was amazed.
![Image](https://i.postimg.cc/cLR9cdTG/1-C7-F859-C-4472-425-B-A167-B64-DA0596052.jpg)
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“Tú, que me lees, ¿estás seguro de entender mi lenguaje?” — Jorge Luis Borges