War - A necessary evil?

Page 16 of 17 [ 269 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Sand
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 98
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

27 Aug 2008, 10:08 pm

Since, as you claim, most firearm damage is done with illegal arms, what is your proposal to stop the damage?

twoshots
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,731
Location: Boötes void

27 Aug 2008, 10:11 pm

Sand wrote:

Since, as you claim, most firearm damage is done with illegal arms, what is your proposal to stop the damage?

Legalize drugs!

_________________
* here for the nachos.

iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

27 Aug 2008, 10:12 pm

Sand wrote:

Since, as you claim, most firearm damage is done with illegal arms, what is your proposal to stop the damage?

Who claimed this?

Closest thing that I've heard is that (paraphrased) "even if you outlaw firearms from the general public, that it wouldn't stop people who disregard law to purchase them illegally."

Sand
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 98
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

27 Aug 2008, 10:15 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Sand wrote:

There is nothing wrong with weapons just as there is nothing wrong with automobiles. They both kill lots of innocent people but at least with cars there is a whole sector of society devoted to see to it that the people who drive have competence and good physical condition to use a car. I don't see anything like that with guns.

Depends on your locale. Hear in the states it varies considerably from state to state, most states require a permit to carry a firearm and many of those have a training requirement. Most of the crimes committed with firearms are committed by people who acquired them illegally in the first place, so the impact of greater training requirements would be marginal.

Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,670
Location: Seattle-ish

27 Aug 2008, 10:15 pm

Sand wrote:

Since, as you claim, most firearm damage is done with illegal arms, what is your proposal to stop the damage?

In the USA? Reform the justice system, specifically by decriminalizing most narcotics. That would knock out probably 50-75% of the non-suicide related deaths and injuries right there. Plus, with all the money I'd save that had been wasted on the drug war I could afford better law enforcement. That's my solution in a nutshell anyway, of course I could go into far more detail, but I don't think I need to bore you.

_________________
Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.

- Rick Sanchez

Bobby1933
Snowy Owl

Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Age: 91
Gender: Male
Posts: 129
Location: Idaho, USA

27 Aug 2008, 10:16 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

... but war is merely violence on a larger scale than usual.

War is an affair of state, involving policies, armies, propaganda, etc. Some violent individuals are rejected by armies as being too undisciplined. Peaceful people are recruited and persuaded to kill. War is more than just big violence.

_________________
Nun: I believe I am God.
Meister Eckhart: Praise be to God!

Bobby1933
Snowy Owl

Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Age: 91
Gender: Male
Posts: 129
Location: Idaho, USA

27 Aug 2008, 10:23 pm

slowmutant wrote:

War is one of the hallmarks of an unnecesarily cruel world. It's a necessarily evil inasmuch as conflict and argument cannot be avoided.

Yes!

_________________
Nun: I believe I am God.
Meister Eckhart: Praise be to God!

Sand
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 98
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

27 Aug 2008, 10:24 pm

Decriminalizing drugs is a nice idea, but when you consider what a profitable industry it is with, no doubt, as much political influence as any other well off political influence group, just how do you propose to convince the crooked politicians and the general public to get this done? Have you something more practical in mind?

greenblue
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,896
Location: Home

27 Aug 2008, 10:25 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

War is necessary, if you value anything that is.
If you're content to be killed or trampled by others, good for you.

"You shall not kill, but if you must, you shall do it before they do to you".
"Turn the other cheek, after the other guy is dead, of course".

I think I like the old King James version better

_________________
?Everything is perfect in the universe - even your desire to improve it.?

Bobby1933
Snowy Owl

Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Age: 91
Gender: Male
Posts: 129
Location: Idaho, USA

27 Aug 2008, 10:55 pm

slowmutant wrote:

Human nature being what is, all forms of argument and confict are inevitable. Is this obvious to anyone else? I mean, I certainly can't explain war. I don't excuse it. I make no apology for it. I can, however explain its causes.

Was WWII a just war? Yes. If the Allies had not stopped Hitler, the Nazis would've surely destroyed the world. But if the Nazi aggressions had not taken place, no one would have had to kill & die in response to them.

Defense against an unprovoked aggressor, IMO, is permissable. But only if the defending force does not use excessive measures or engage in any unlawful activity. An army may great purity of purpose, but when it trickles down to the level of individual fighting men, disputes, enmities and power-plays are the creeping cancer within.

Is it possible to have an army or fighting force with total purity of purpose? Not with human soldiers, I say.

Too much contempt for human beings and to much respect for their institutions is one of the problems many people have that leads to the perpetuation of war. War is evil. War is unnecessary (unless our beliefs make it necessary).

_________________
Nun: I believe I am God.
Meister Eckhart: Praise be to God!

Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,670
Location: Seattle-ish

27 Aug 2008, 11:04 pm

Sand wrote:

I think you just moved the goal posts here, I was under the impression that the discussion was fairly theoretical up to this point. That, and I don't think that drug policy reform is all THAT far fetched, the public will get fed up with this BS eventually. As to convincing crooked politicians, may I suggest at gunpoint? (that's being facetious again, for the waggishly impaired in the audience)

_________________
Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.

- Rick Sanchez

Bobby1933
Snowy Owl

Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Age: 91
Gender: Male
Posts: 129
Location: Idaho, USA

27 Aug 2008, 11:14 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

Was WWII a just war? Yes. If the Allies had not stopped Hitler, the Nazis would've surely destroyed the world. But if the Nazi aggressions had not taken place, no one would have had to kill & die in response to them.

You see here is a perfect example of myth over fact, because the causes of war are not taught truthfully we continue to delude ourselves that you can have a "just' war. I agree that once WW2 had started it was imperative for the allies to finish it, what is more important is that the damn thing should not have started in the first place. WW2 was a direct consequence of war reparations carried out by Britain and France after WW1, the destruction of the German economy and complete humiliation of its people gave hitler the perfect circumstances to grow his brand of popularist fascism. So no it was not a "Just' war' .

If we are talking about the concept of "just war" developed by the Catholic Church, there probably has not been a just war since the invention of the Gatling Gun (1840s?) In World War I, one half of all casualties were civilian non-combatants. In World War II, civilians were 56 percent of the war dead. In the wars which have been fought since WWII from 60 to 70 percent of the casualties have been women and children. Since modern weapons can't or don't discriminate among combatants and noncombatants, wars cannot be just on that ground alone. Most of the other conditions for a just war are also unmet in the modern world,

_________________
Nun: I believe I am God.
Meister Eckhart: Praise be to God!

chever
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,291
Location: Earth

27 Aug 2008, 11:16 pm

Dogbrain wrote:

The "legacy reptilian instinctual crap" is what keeps us alive instead of intellectualizing ourselves into ethical paralyzation and consequent starvation.

Ethical paralysis?

Explain please.

A 'reformed' person without destructive primitive instincts might have thoughts like "I need to kill that animal in order to live." but not "I'M GOING TO FUCKING KILL THAT ANIMAL."

There is a fat and fuzzy line between the two

In fact, this kind of perfected person might be the most efficient killer of all (only when strictly necessary), because his mind would be unclouded by anger or fear.

_________________
"You can take me, but you cannot take my bunghole! For I have no bunghole! I am the Great Cornholio!"

Sand
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 98
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

27 Aug 2008, 11:25 pm

I admire your faith in the population coming to its senses as to legalizing drugs but the whole current political situation involving the war on terrorism, civil rights, the economy, the infrastructure, the tremendous influence of the military industrial complex, educatio, the ecology, the total ineffectiveness of the political system etc.etc, gives me little faith in the public's capability to be fed up. Shooting politicians just leaves empty spots for more crooked politicians. I had hoped you had some practical solutions but calling the proposals theoretical does not buck up my confidence. If I were religious I would pray but that silly idea gives me no comfort whatsoever.

greenblue
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,896
Location: Home

27 Aug 2008, 11:27 pm

Bobby1933 wrote:

DentArthurDent wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

Well, we need to mention that Russia played a big role for stopping Hitler and defeating the nazis. I think we could argue that WWI and WWII might have been necessary wars, and even the Cold War (the space race) Those where to influence the world into scientific advancements and the creation of universal concepts as human rights, genocide, international law, etc.

_________________
?Everything is perfect in the universe - even your desire to improve it.?

Sand
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 98
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

27 Aug 2008, 11:29 pm

The humanistic concepts have been around for a long time and still have quite a ways to go to be realized.

Page 16 of 17 [ 269 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 Next

Jump to:

War - A necessary evil? Post Reply New Topic

War - A necessary evil?