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Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

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Josh68
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15 Feb 2023, 4:50 pm

The money has been promised and will be delivered. It's going to well exceed 100 billion.

You say the homeless situation and the Ukrainian conflict are two separate issues is missing the point I'm trying to make entirely. You have to understand that once the "slow motion couple de tat" on our government was complete, as Chris Hedges has accurately stated, the political establishment and ruling elite no longer gave two s**ts about the homeless or working class in the U S. We've got tons of f*****g money to send to Ukraine to ensure more Ukrainians die -- they'll never win the war against Russia -- but we can't fix our own problems at home.

We can print money for endless war, but we can't do the same for the people of our country. Disgusting!


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magz
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15 Feb 2023, 5:02 pm

Last year Ukraine got 3% of military budget.

USA federal budget is $1.93 trillion. The promised 110 billion - if correct - would be 5.7% of one years' federal spending.
I suppose it's last year's aid and this year's planned aid. That would make around... 3% of spendings. 0.5% of GDP.

I believe the homelessness problem is... simply a lot more difficult to adress than sending 3% of a budget somewhere.


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Josh68
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15 Feb 2023, 5:19 pm

magz wrote:
Last year Ukraine got 3% of military budget.

USA federal budget is $1.93 trillion. The promised 110 billion - if correct - would be 5.7% of one years' federal spending.
I suppose it's last year's aid and this year's planned aid. That would make around... 3% of spendings. 0.5% of GDP.

I believe the homelessness problem is... simply a lot more difficult to adress than sending 3% of a budget somewhere.
hum

No, it's quite simple to address if we had a government that had any relevance for human lives and quality of living. Dead people mean nothing to the U S. state department, whether the homeless living in the street or dead Ukrainians.

The percentage of what we spend on the military -- more than the next 20 or more industrialized nations -- is irrelevant to the conversation.


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Pepe
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15 Feb 2023, 10:29 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Because Xi doesn’t want to relinquish power.

I am 99% certain Trump would have gone for a third term had he been elected in 2020.


Speculation. :mrgreen:



Pepe
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15 Feb 2023, 10:38 pm

Josh68 wrote:
Zelensky was certainly open to sitting down with Putin, there are plenty of articles and sources to back that up.

I think you're wrong about the U S. not wanting to be involved. They've wanted this ever since the Russiagate malarkey started. To weaken Russia is the main goal. I'm totally against sending another dollar to Ukraine because we need that money at home. They can send 110 billion to a foreign country, while Americans are dying because of homelessness and lack of medical insurance.

War is profitable, defense contractors and Wall Street are getting rich. What a wonderful world. To quote Major General Smedley Butler, "War is a racket."


pootin has done that all by himself. <cheeky> :mrgreen:
He has destroyed the Russian economy and shown that the "Heroic" Russian military, the second most powerful military in the world, is a "Paper Tiger", primarily due to internal corruption.
All pootin really has is the threat of a nuclear holocaust.

Virtually no one expected the Russian "army" to be so ineffective.
I certainly didn't.

Ukraine's morale has been strong.
Glory to the heroism of Ukraine. 8)



Pepe
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15 Feb 2023, 10:50 pm

Josh68 wrote:
The money has been promised and will be delivered. It's going to well exceed 100 billion.

You say the homeless situation and the Ukrainian conflict are two separate issues is missing the point I'm trying to make entirely. You have to understand that once the "slow motion couple de tat" on our government was complete, as Chris Hedges has accurately stated, the political establishment and ruling elite no longer gave two s**ts about the homeless or working class in the U S. We've got tons of f*****g money to send to Ukraine to ensure more Ukrainians die -- they'll never win the war against Russia -- but we can't fix our own problems at home.

We can print money for endless war, but we can't do the same for the people of our country. Disgusting!


The protection of the sovereignty of both Ukraine and Australia is benefiting hugely due to the Democrat's policies.
Guess who I am hoping wins the next Presidential elections? :mrgreen:



magz
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16 Feb 2023, 4:06 am

My only point with all these numbers was to show that aid to Ukraine does not significantly change anything in the US. Things that already were good stay good, things that already were bad stay bad.

One more thing:
Sending weapons to Ukraine does not increase Ukrainian death toll.
The most obviously: anti-missile systems.
Less obviously: keeping control on your territorry makes all the rescue services for civilians work and avoid the fate of the Mariupol theater, avoid all the things that are discovered once occupied territories are liberated and investigators are let in.
Sending Ukraine weapons enables them to protect their civilians.

Ukraine can win with Russia. Japan in 1905 did. Poland in 1921 did. Finland in 1940 did. Defending your independence is a bar set much lower than completely defeating your enemy.


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Josh68
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16 Feb 2023, 4:40 am

Pepe wrote:
Josh68 wrote:
The money has been promised and will be delivered. It's going to well exceed 100 billion.

You say the homeless situation and the Ukrainian conflict are two separate issues is missing the point I'm trying to make entirely. You have to understand that once the "slow motion couple de tat" on our government was complete, as Chris Hedges has accurately stated, the political establishment and ruling elite no longer gave two s**ts about the homeless or working class in the U S. We've got tons of f*****g money to send to Ukraine to ensure more Ukrainians die -- they'll never win the war against Russia -- but we can't fix our own problems at home.

We can print money for endless war, but we can't do the same for the people of our country. Disgusting!


The protection of the sovereignty of both Ukraine and Australia is benefiting hugely due to the Democrat's policies.
Guess who I am hoping wins the next Presidential elections? :mrgreen:


Democrats serve the Military Industrial Complex even more fervently that the Republicans these days.


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Pepe
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16 Feb 2023, 4:43 am

Quote:
President Vladimir Putin showing 'no sign' of relenting his brutal offensives in Ukraine as the war creeps up to one-year mark

NATO's chief has delivered a bleak outlook about the situation in Ukraine and urged the military alliance to ramp up support as President Vladimir Putin prepares another brutal attack.
Amy Landsey

February 15, 2023

Quote:
NATO has been urged to begin ramping up ammunition production for Ukraine as the military alliance’s chief issues a stark warning about the future of the war.

Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg delivered a bleak outlook about the situation in the war-torn country when speaking to reporters ahead of a meeting of NATO Defence Ministers on Tuesday.

He cautioned that Russian President Vladimir Putin had no plans to slow down his brutal offensives in Ukraine as the campaign nears its one-year mark.

https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/g ... erallPos=5



Josh68
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16 Feb 2023, 4:50 am

magz wrote:
My only point with all these numbers was to show that aid to Ukraine does not significantly change anything in the US. Things that already were good stay good, things that already were bad stay bad.

One more thing:
Sending weapons to Ukraine does not increase Ukrainian death toll.
The most obviously: anti-missile systems.
Less obviously: keeping control on your territorry makes all the rescue services for civilians work and avoid the fate of the Mariupol theater, avoid all the things that are discovered once occupied territories are liberated and investigators are let in.
Sending Ukraine weapons enables them to protect their civilians.

Ukraine can win with Russia. Japan in 1905 did. Poland in 1921 did. Finland in 1940 did. Defending your independence is a bar set much lower than completely defeating your enemy.


Yeah, nothing is going to change in the United States. Endlessly money for war, austerity for everyone else. But who cares, right?

Russia has been preparing for this ground offensive since 2008. They perhaps as many as one million troops ready to launch an offensive. I don't see a Ukrainian victory happening.


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magz
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16 Feb 2023, 5:06 am

Josh68 wrote:
Yeah, nothing is going to change in the United States. Endlessly money for war, austerity for everyone else. But who cares, right?
Here on WP, I've seen plenty of people who do care.

Josh68 wrote:
Russia has been preparing for this ground offensive since 2008. They perhaps as many as one million troops ready to launch an offensive. I don't see a Ukrainian victory happening.
Russia has massive forces but often low quality and poorly commanded. Also, extremely poor intelligence, which lead to starting this war in the first place. A serious enemy but with significant weaknesses.

A year ago, everyone thought Ukraine was a lost case. Even I thought it would be a blitzkrieg and then long, bloody occupation, like what happened in Poland in 1939 or in Afghanistan in 1979.
Ukrainians are proving us wrong.


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Pepe
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16 Feb 2023, 5:32 am

Josh68 wrote:

Russia has been preparing for this ground offensive since 2008. They perhaps as many as one million troops ready to launch an offensive. I don't see a Ukrainian victory happening.


And they did a good job in conquering Ukraine in 3 days. :lmao:



Last edited by Pepe on 16 Feb 2023, 5:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

Pepe
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16 Feb 2023, 5:34 am

magz wrote:
A year ago, everyone thought Ukraine was a lost case. Even I thought it would be a blitzkrieg and then long, bloody occupation, like what happened in Poland in 1939 or in Afghanistan in 1979.
Ukrainians are proving us wrong.


"Glory to Ukraine." 8)



Josh68
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16 Feb 2023, 9:48 am

U.S. General Mark Milley believes it will not be possible for Ukraine to push Russia back from all the territory they currently occupy.




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Josh68
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16 Feb 2023, 10:07 am

Even Biden has said he's open to sitting down with Putin to negotiate a settlement. That's a positive note, I believe. There's has to be every effort made to stop this madness before it triggers our extinction event.


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magz
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16 Feb 2023, 1:36 pm

Josh68 wrote:
Even Biden has said he's open to sitting down with Putin to negotiate a settlement. That's a positive note, I believe. There's has to be every effort made to stop this madness before it triggers our extinction event.

And putin responds with another mass shelling of civilian infrastructure.


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