Does the government own your vagina?

Page 17 of 23 [ 357 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 ... 23 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Inuyasha
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,745

13 Apr 2011, 10:42 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:

Has anyone brought up the Idea of abortion as eviction?

if I own an apartment whose tenant will not pay his rent but will die if evicted.
Do I have A right to evict him?

False Equivalency again, the child in the womb did not ask to be conceived, it was not his/her choice in the matter. It was the choice of his/her parents to have sex.

JakobVirgil
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Age: 51
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,744
Location: yes

13 Apr 2011, 10:47 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Has anyone brought up the Idea of abortion as eviction?

if I own an apartment whose tenant will not pay his rent but will die if evicted.
Do I have A right to evict him?

False Equivalency again, the child in the womb did not ask to be conceived, it was not his/her choice in the matter. It was the choice of his/her parents to have sex.

it was not my tennants choice to be to ill to work.
is it my aboligation to put him up?

_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/

cdfox7
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,700

14 Apr 2011, 12:04 am

Mmm Done my government own my vagina? technically it done's own a vangina, few of them.
The BBC is owned by my government & has been using the word cuts for another c word.

Paxo says the cword

Bethie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,817
Location: My World, Highview, Louisville, Kentucky, USA, Earth, The Milky Way, Local Group, Local Supercluster

14 Apr 2011, 7:09 am

Inuyasha wrote:

By saying it results in a death, you just admitted the child in the womb is alive. In effect you completely contradicted yourself. Furthermore, it is not a parasitic relationship, it is an act of continuing the species.

Nah. Intent is everything, hence my pointing out the difference all sane people see between deliberate and intentional killing
and the exercisement of pre-existing rights that in this case always result in a death.
Continuation of the species doesn't change the parasitic nature of the fetus.

Inuyasha wrote:

The child in the womb has more processing power at conception than bacteria. Seriously, we are talking about human life, single celled organisms that do not even classify as animals because they are single celled and do not have nucleia.

Always thrilled to meet a fellow vegan!

Inuyasha wrote:

If you chose to have sex, then quite frankly you are responsible for the consequences, the same is true for the guy you had sex with. The only remotely legit argument is in the advent of rape, but the majority of abortions have nothing to do with rape, incest, health threat to mother, etc.

Abortion's a consequence of sex. It's just not a consequence you like.

Inuyasha wrote:

I don't think sex is consequence-free for either the guy or the gal, and yes it is degrading society.

Well forced pregnancy doesn't have to be one of those consequences, hence the discussion.

Inuyasha wrote:

You are giving another false equivalency, you are proving my point about pro-abortion dehumanizing children.

Don't be silly. In terms of everything meaningful about humanity, a fetus is exactly on par with a tapeworm.
Although it begs the question about how you'd describe reducing millions of women to indentured incubators, if not "dehumanizing",
and what it says about one's view of what children deserve, to advocate their being forced into the world unwanted and resented, often to subsist miserably in poverty.

But only fetuses are worthy of protection, I suppose. :roll:

_________________
For there is another kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions; indifference and inaction and slow decay.

Bethie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,817
Location: My World, Highview, Louisville, Kentucky, USA, Earth, The Milky Way, Local Group, Local Supercluster

14 Apr 2011, 7:11 am

Inuyasha wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Has anyone brought up the Idea of abortion as eviction?

if I own an apartment whose tenant will not pay his rent but will die if evicted.
Do I have A right to evict him?

False Equivalency again, the child in the womb did not ask to be conceived, it was not his/her choice in the matter. It was the choice of his/her parents to have sex.

So the fetus's non-choice in being conceived somehow negates it's host's right to choose whether to continue incubating it?

Vexcalibur
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,398

14 Apr 2011, 8:37 am

Abortion is not a victimless crime. It would have to be a crime to be one.

_________________
.

sartresue
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Age: 70
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,313
Location: The Castle of Shock and Awe-tism

14 Apr 2011, 8:44 am

Bethie wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Has anyone brought up the Idea of abortion as eviction?

if I own an apartment whose tenant will not pay his rent but will die if evicted.
Do I have A right to evict him?

False Equivalency again, the child in the womb did not ask to be conceived, it was not his/her choice in the matter. It was the choice of his/her parents to have sex.

So the fetus's non-choice in being conceived somehow negates it's host's right to choose whether to continue incubating it?

Unwilling hosts topic

This just might complicate matters, but I want to remind all that abortions involving surgery (not the morning after pill) can be damaging to a woman's reproductive organs. This is not to encourage carrying unwanted zefs. My sister has had three abortions, and sadly, when she finally was able to want to start a family, her uterus had been buggered beyond repair, and she had miscarriage after miscarriage. Perhaps one day there will be as remedy for this, or perhaps there ware better methods to ending unwanted pregnancies.

I am prochoice, and the above does nothing to change my mind. Do not take my comments out of context.

_________________
Radiant Aspergian
Awe-Tistic Whirlwind

Phuture Phounder of the Philosophy Phactory

NOT a believer of Mystic Woo-Woo

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

14 Apr 2011, 11:51 am

JakobVirgil wrote:

Has anyone brought up the Idea of abortion as eviction?

if I own an apartment whose tenant will not pay his rent but will die if evicted.
Do I have A right to evict him?

If the law does not permit you to evict him, it should be changed. No one is obliged to provide a living to anyone else except in the case of dependent children (a parent must support his/her children) or where a contract exists, for example an insurance company must pay out to a client making a valid claim.

There is no legally enforceable general principle that says A must support a strange B just because B needs support.

ruveyn

Inuyasha
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,745

14 Apr 2011, 12:22 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Has anyone brought up the Idea of abortion as eviction?

if I own an apartment whose tenant will not pay his rent but will die if evicted.
Do I have A right to evict him?

False Equivalency again, the child in the womb did not ask to be conceived, it was not his/her choice in the matter. It was the choice of his/her parents to have sex.

it was not my tennants choice to be to ill to work.
is it my aboligation to put him up?

It was your tennant's choice to move in there, it was not the child's choice for the parents to have sex which resulted in pregnency.

psychohist
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,623
Location: Somerville, MA, USA

14 Apr 2011, 2:33 pm

sartresue wrote:

This just might complicate matters, but I want to remind all that abortions involving surgery (not the morning after pill) can be damaging to a woman's reproductive organs. This is not to encourage carrying unwanted zefs. My sister has had three abortions, and sadly, when she finally was able to want to start a family, her uterus had been buggered beyond repair, and she had miscarriage after miscarriage. Perhaps one day there will be as remedy for this, or perhaps there ware better methods to ending unwanted pregnancies.

Infertility is quite common these days, even among women who have never had an abortion, my wife being an example. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it was the abortions that were at fault in the case of your sister.

Certainly careful use of birth control is preferable to abortion when possible.

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

14 Apr 2011, 4:14 pm

[quote="Inuyasha"

It was your tennant's choice to move in there, it was not the child's choice for the parents to have sex which resulted in pregnency.[/quote]

In an early stage of pregnancy the result is NOT a person. A tenant IS a person. So comparing the ZEF to a tenant is just mistaken.

ruveyn

RedHanrahan
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 1 Sep 2007
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,204
Location: Aotearoa/New Zealand

14 Apr 2011, 5:43 pm

skafather84 wrote:

I think this is a serious question to ask with abortion.

Should the government force mandatory monthly pregnancy tests on all women to ensure that any possible almost-children get the full protection of the law?

How else can they effectively enforce such a thing? Otherwise, the practice continues on the black market and no almost-children are really saved.

Should women wear be forced to wear an item that would demarcate that they're pregnant as soon as the government finds out? It would help ensure that such women didn't try any funny business.

Or to be less intrusive...maybe abortions should just remain legal and be something that is at the woman and doctor's discretion.
[i]Always funny to see conservatives yell about small government then support legislation that's about as intrusive as saying that the government has more a right to a woman's vagina than she does.

I have long said 'scratch an anarchist - find a fascist'.

It seems to me that most people are narcissistic blow hards and are all for their own freedom and only extend it to others in as much as it suits their own value system.

No the government does not own anyones vagina, sperm, mind... etc, each person has the right to do what they will as long as it does not interefere with others right to the same, in theory at least.

Is an undeveloped foetus a person? - probably not, they are not sentient, self governing beings.
Are they potential persons? well yes - but millions of non human animals are fully developed persons and people kill and eat them all the time!

I have for an even longer time said 'cannibalism between consenting adults' - explain the problem here - please.

Scratch a fascist - find an anarchist?....

peace j

_________________
Just because we can does not mean we should.

What vision is left? And is anyone asking?

Have a great day!

skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

14 Apr 2011, 6:03 pm

RedHanrahan wrote:

I have for an even longer time said 'cannibalism between consenting adults' - explain the problem here - please.

Scratch a fascist - find an anarchist?....

peace j

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg1 ... ealth.html

But then again, between consenting adults that understand the risks...I don't know. There was a case of this in Germany...

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,714339,00.html

_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823

?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson

skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

14 Apr 2011, 6:23 pm

But one thing: how far should one have to go to prove it's consensual?

What would the conditions be for consensual versus someone who needs psychiatric help and cannot actually give consent?

Inuyasha
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,745

14 Apr 2011, 6:31 pm

skafather84 wrote:

But one thing: how far should one have to go to prove it's consensual?

What would the conditions be for consensual versus someone who needs psychiatric help and cannot actually give consent?

That argument doesn't fly, because most abortions occur because two individuals decide to be immature and have sex with each other, then decide to have an abortion because they consider the child to be inconveinent.

skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

14 Apr 2011, 6:37 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

But one thing: how far should one have to go to prove it's consensual?

What would the conditions be for consensual versus someone who needs psychiatric help and cannot actually give consent?

Not addressed to you and not about that. Was responding to the redhanrahan post regarding consensual cannibalism.

Page 17 of 23 [ 357 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 ... 23 Next

Jump to:

Does the government own your vagina? Post Reply New Topic

Does the government own your vagina?