Overuse of Nazi comparisons

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Tempus Fugit
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23 Nov 2020, 4:04 pm

Redd_Kross wrote:

Tempus Fugit wrote:

cberg wrote:

You can't "research" a made up slur that someone called a medical condition.

You are expressing distinctly cultist alt-right deny/counteraccuse behavior & citing your own "research".

Research is to be cited as a legitimate study, not what your choice of sites told you.

Thanks. That's such a quintessential example of what little it takes to be called a nazi here.

Because I Googled "Obama dictator" and "Obama cult" and mentioned I saw a lot of hits on those searches, that means I'm an "alt-right cultist" ie Nazi.

Only if you deliberately choose to change the words "expressing distinctly cultist alt-right deny / counteraccuse behaviour" to "You are a Nazi". Nobody said that, you jumped to make the link. The "expressing distinctly..." bit is another way of saying "You appear to be saying X. Are you sure?". It's a warning shot in debating terms, but you've turned it into an absolute judgement and then further extrapolated "=Nazi" from it. And then acted all butt-hurt.

You are perceiving this quite poorly if you see me as "butt-hurt". I am quite happy seeing someone prove my point.

And if you had read as much as I have from "certain posters", you would know it is not I but they who have defined the meanings and implications of the terms they use and how they go together.

cberg
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23 Nov 2020, 4:05 pm

magz wrote:

Do you all agree that trying to get another member banned is a toxic behavior?

Not if they subscribe to the lowest common denomination of basic morality. Whinging that you aren't a nazi isn't really saying much.

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KT67
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23 Nov 2020, 4:10 pm

Tempus Fugit wrote:

Most aren't any more cult-like devoted to Trump than people have been to past presidents. That's mostly just a propagandist narrative. And it's been applied during each presidency. There was an "Obama cult" too and "Obama was a dictator" also. Just Google those terms for Obama era articles if you don't believe me.

Lol how young do you think I am :lol:

I seriously think though that the centre left, had Obama lost, wouldn't have been claiming he won.

And if Obama was what they didn't stand for (so for eg if Obama was going around saying 'f....t' or something) they wouldn't stick by him. So it's a bit weird that types that voted for W are sticking by a cheating playboy like Trump.

I do agree that America seems to go in for cult of personality/the opposite of that more than the UK has done since Maggie. I think it's the 'two horse race' nature of your politics that does it.

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magz
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23 Nov 2020, 4:16 pm

Redd_Kross wrote:

magz wrote:

Do you all agree that trying to get another member banned is a toxic behavior?

Depends whether it's for legitimate reasons (i.e. they post things which are outright nasty / dangerous), or you've just targeted them for the sake of it, with no real justification.

But then most people like that ultimately get themselves banned, don't they? All you need to do is report their posts, if they're really that terrible.

Forcing people out isn't the same, that can happen over more minor things and the Mods won't necessarily know.

Yes, people openly voicing support for nazi-like policies don't last long. All you need is click the "report" button.
The problems start when one person interprets another person as "closet" <something bad> and tries to get them banned for opinions never actually voiced or last time voiced years ago.

What is "forcing people out"?

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Redd_Kross
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23 Nov 2020, 4:18 pm

KT67 wrote:

I seriously think though that the centre left, had Obama lost, wouldn't have been claiming he won.

I think that too. But mainly because Obama and the US Democratic Party aren't anywhere near centre left.

Redd_Kross
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23 Nov 2020, 4:20 pm

magz wrote:

What is "forcing people out"?

By that I meant, picking on someone until they leave WP. Forcing them out of the site.

Tempus Fugit
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23 Nov 2020, 4:21 pm

magz wrote:

Do you all agree that trying to get another member banned is a toxic behavior?

That depends on if it happened or if it was just imagined. I have also seen gloating over getting members banned in this and other threads. And the ones they are probably thinking of, based on having named them in the past, weren't even actually banned.

magz
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23 Nov 2020, 4:25 pm

cberg wrote:

magz wrote:

Do you all agree that trying to get another member banned is a toxic behavior?

Not if they subscribe to the lowest common denomination of basic morality. Whinging that you aren't a nazi isn't really saying much.

I believe this "not" is unnecessary in this sentence.
Calling someone "nazi" when they doesn't obviously support nazi policy is a personal attack.
When someone obviously supports nazi policy, a report is the recommended action.

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Fnord
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23 Nov 2020, 4:28 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

... Claiming you proved it isn't the same as proving it...

Excellent point! Other things that are not the same as proof:

• Accusation or Indictment
• Analogy or Metaphor
• Assertion or Claim
• Assumption or Hypothesis
• Argument or Disagreement
• Belief or Disbelief
• Coincidence or Correlation
• Criticism or "Snark"
• Custom or Tradition
• Exaggeration or Hyperbole
• Faith or Superstition
• Filibuster or Story-Telling
• Hearsay or Rumor
• Implication or Inference
• Insult or Slander
• Irrelevance
• Objection
• Opinion
• Question
• Reputation
• Suspicion

For evidence to prove a claim, it must meet three criteria:

• It must be Relevant: This means the evidence must have some reasonable ability to prove or disprove the claim. Evidence that shows an opponent is not a good parent has no relevance when trying to prove voter fraud.

• It must be Material: A given piece of evidence is considered material if it is offered to prove or disprove a fact that is part of the claim. If the proponent claims he saw "Bigfoot", but you have pictures or video recordings showing that "Bigfoot" was actually a person in a poorly-made gorilla costume, then you have material evidence.

• It must be Competent: Certain types of evidence are more reliable than others. For example, an epidemiologist describing the intricacies of the human immune system is considered competent with regard to the coronavirus pandemic, while a politician with no medical experience running for re-election is not considered competent with regard to the coronavirus pandemic.

If a piece of evidence meets all three of the above criteria, then either the proponent or opponent of a claim may safely use it to prove or disprove a claim.

Yes, it is just that simple.

Tempus Fugit
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23 Nov 2020, 4:28 pm

Redd_Kross wrote:

magz wrote:

What is "forcing people out"?

By that I meant, picking on someone until they leave WP. Forcing them out of the site.

I have seen that attempted quite a lot and it is what I have been talking about. There's also the trick of being slick by passive-aggressively getting someone riled up enough to attack directly, and get them in trouble for it. Really that is the way members have gotten other members banned.

magz
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23 Nov 2020, 4:30 pm

Tempus Fugit wrote:

magz wrote:

Do you all agree that trying to get another member banned is a toxic behavior?

Hmmm, I think imagined toxic behavior and real toxic behavior are both "toxic" - just one is real and another is imagined.

Would you be more satisfied if someone you don't like got banned vs if they learned to behave acceptably?

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<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>

League_Girl
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23 Nov 2020, 4:33 pm

magz wrote:

Do you all agree that trying to get another member banned is a toxic behavior?

If a member is here insulting and attacking users, I don't see it as toxic behavior when you keep reporting them.

If a user here has opinions you don't like and you decide to twist them and report them to the mods and claim they said this or that when they didn't, that is toxic behavior. Someone here actually did this to me and only thing cornflake did was edit my post removing the "attack."

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23 Nov 2020, 4:35 pm

cberg wrote:

Gag me with a spoon, dilluting the meaning of a word referring to homicidal zealots is free thinking?

Apparently so just like denying something was done with racial motivation is also critical thinking. :wink:

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GGPViper
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23 Nov 2020, 4:38 pm

magz wrote:

Do you all agree that trying to get another member banned is a toxic behavior?

I specifically recall a poster here who considered me a lesser human being when he found out I am mixed-race.

I also specifically recall doing my part in getting him banned...

Fnord
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23 Nov 2020, 4:42 pm

GGPViper wrote:

I specifically recall a poster here who considered me a lesser human being when he found out I am mixed-race. I also specifically recall doing my part in getting him banned...

Yes, a very satisfying episode, indeed.

League_Girl
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23 Nov 2020, 4:43 pm

Tempus Fugit wrote:

Redd_Kross wrote:

magz wrote:

What is "forcing people out"?

By that I meant, picking on someone until they leave WP. Forcing them out of the site.

Honestly I have ran into quite a few members here who are quick to attack others because they read a negative tone in a post here or twisted their post and turn everything into an argument or an attack. I just avoid these members, so I wouldn't be one of these members to chase them off this platform.

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