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Pepe
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20 Feb 2021, 11:20 pm

Jiheisho wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Cornflake wrote:
Pepe wrote:
As I keep on saying: Politics. :roll:

It happens on both sides of the political divide.
Some simply refuse to acknowledge it. :shrug:
Is your response to any political discussions here always going to be: :shrug:
We also know you keep on saying "Politics :roll: " because you keep on reminding us.


Well, when you don't have an argument, fall back on moral equivalency...


For the record:
Are you saying the Democrats have never played politics?


Wow, what a disingenuous argument. "Playing politics" is just a red herring. Sure, you can draw the Venn diagram to contain every possible instance, but that does not mean those instances are equivalent.

When you mean politics, do you mean policies with supporting evidence or policies supported by opinion? Or do you mean politics based simply in raw power.


A number of people, here, refer to the word "Equivalency".
Is this a leftist 'buzz-word', these days?

If you are using 'equivalency' to mean a 50/50 situation, no, I am not saying things are 'equivalent'.
I am simply trying to ascertain if you have a binary view that only the right of politics plays 'politics'.

Quote:
What does play politics mean?
disapproving. : to say or do things for political reasons instead of doing what is right or what is best for other people She's been accused of playing politics with the investigation.


In this context, 'Playing Politics' means being deliberately partisan.

Do you agree that both parties play party politics?



Jiheisho
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21 Feb 2021, 12:05 am

Pepe wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Cornflake wrote:
Pepe wrote:
As I keep on saying: Politics. :roll:

It happens on both sides of the political divide.
Some simply refuse to acknowledge it. :shrug:
Is your response to any political discussions here always going to be: :shrug:
We also know you keep on saying "Politics :roll: " because you keep on reminding us.


Well, when you don't have an argument, fall back on moral equivalency...


For the record:
Are you saying the Democrats have never played politics?


Wow, what a disingenuous argument. "Playing politics" is just a red herring. Sure, you can draw the Venn diagram to contain every possible instance, but that does not mean those instances are equivalent.

When you mean politics, do you mean policies with supporting evidence or policies supported by opinion? Or do you mean politics based simply in raw power.


A number of people, here, refer to the word "Equivalency".
Is this a leftist 'buzz-word', these days?

If you are using 'equivalency' to mean a 50/50 situation, no, I am not saying things are 'equivalent'.
I am simply trying to ascertain if you have a binary view that only the right of politics plays 'politics'.

Quote:
What does play politics mean?
disapproving. : to say or do things for political reasons instead of doing what is right or what is best for other people She's been accused of playing politics with the investigation.


In this context, 'Playing Politics' means being deliberately partisan.

Do you agree that both parties play party politics?


That is not my point. My point is you deflect by presenting the both-sides-do-it-too argument without considering the action, its impact, or frequency. It is not a right or left thing. It is simply a logical fallacy and a disingenuous rhetorical device.



Pepe
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21 Feb 2021, 12:19 pm

Jiheisho wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Cornflake wrote:
Pepe wrote:
As I keep on saying: Politics. :roll:

It happens on both sides of the political divide.
Some simply refuse to acknowledge it. :shrug:
Is your response to any political discussions here always going to be: :shrug:
We also know you keep on saying "Politics :roll: " because you keep on reminding us.


Well, when you don't have an argument, fall back on moral equivalency...


For the record:
Are you saying the Democrats have never played politics?


Wow, what a disingenuous argument. "Playing politics" is just a red herring. Sure, you can draw the Venn diagram to contain every possible instance, but that does not mean those instances are equivalent.

When you mean politics, do you mean policies with supporting evidence or policies supported by opinion? Or do you mean politics based simply in raw power.


A number of people, here, refer to the word "Equivalency".
Is this a leftist 'buzz-word', these days?

If you are using 'equivalency' to mean a 50/50 situation, no, I am not saying things are 'equivalent'.
I am simply trying to ascertain if you have a binary view that only the right of politics plays 'politics'.

Quote:
What does play politics mean?
disapproving. : to say or do things for political reasons instead of doing what is right or what is best for other people She's been accused of playing politics with the investigation.


In this context, 'Playing Politics' means being deliberately partisan.

Do you agree that both parties play party politics?


That is not my point. My point is you deflect by presenting the both-sides-do-it-too argument without considering the action, its impact, or frequency. It is not a right or left thing. It is simply a logical fallacy and a disingenuous rhetorical device.


But you do admit that both parties act unethically at times, right?



goldfish21
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21 Feb 2021, 12:44 pm

Of course both parties are corrupt and both parties act unethically at times. But they are not even remotely close to the same scale of corruption & unethical behaviour.

One party promotes human rights, the other embraces fringe lunatics who are responsible for the majority of politically motivated violence in the country. One party wants better access to healthcare for all citizens so as to be more like the rest of the developed world, while the other wants to kick even more people off of healthcare in order to enrich their wealthiest donors. etc.

Yes, Democrats & the political left have made shady self serving deals in the past, probably will again in the present administration, and will continue to do so in the future - that's the nature of politicians almost regardless of party nor country. We all get that. But American Republicans have taken than graft to an Olympic sport level - especially under the most recent Republican administration led by trump, his family members, and bunch of goons. The guy spent 4 years projecting that Hillary was a scam artist and Biden will be, while he stole as much from America for himself and his friends as he possibly could. Hundreds of Millions of dollars for golf trips to his own resorts, covid relief loans for his friends businesses and churches that never should have qualified for the money, his unqualified daughter and son-in-law working inside the White House, secret meetings with Putin, military moves that benefit his trump towers in Turkey, ripping off his own maga cult members for donations to "stop the steal," that were basically re-routed into his accounts to pay off campaign debts and build a war chest for future political action.

It is impossible to equate the levels of corruption & unethical behaviour between the two parties - especially over the last 4 years. Yes, they're all guilty of doing self serving things.. but not to the same degree. Are you willing & able to see and admit that? :?


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No :heart: for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.


ironpony
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21 Feb 2021, 8:42 pm

Well it doesn't look like Trump will be charged, unless a DA is still deciding on it?



auntblabby
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21 Feb 2021, 9:17 pm

i hope he follows his fanboy rush limburger into hell!



Pepe
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21 Feb 2021, 9:49 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
One party promotes human rights,


One party embraces a narrative.
One party engages in weaponised political correctness.
One party plays the racist card.
One party embraces collectivist thinking.
One party embraces binary thinking.
One party inhibits freedom of speech.
One party inhibits freedom of thought.
One party purportedly values diversity, but their actions are contradictory.
One party embraces censorship that affects anyone with a diverse life perspective.
One party embraces the concept that morality is more important than the facts.
One party embraces sanctimony, self-righteousness and virtue-signalling.
One party lacks a sense of humour.
One party cancels others.
One party promotes an intellectual dystopia. :skull:



auntblabby
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21 Feb 2021, 9:51 pm

would all those "ones" by chance be the same party?



Pepe
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21 Feb 2021, 9:52 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

It is impossible to equate the levels of corruption & unethical behaviour between the two parties - especially over the last 4 years. Yes, they're all guilty of doing self serving things.. but not to the same degree. Are you willing & able to see and admit that? :?


Then stop embracing the leftist tactic of binary thinking, and we will be kool. 8)



Feyokien
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21 Feb 2021, 9:54 pm

Pepe wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
One party promotes human rights,


One party embraces a narrative.
One party engages in weaponised political correctness.
One party plays the racist card.
One party embraces collectivist thinking.
One party embraces binary thinking.
One party inhibits freedom of speech.
One party inhibits freedom of thought.
One party purportedly values diversity, but their actions are contradictory.
One party embraces censorship that affects anyone with a diverse life perspective.
One party embraces the concept that morality is more important than the facts.
One party embraces sanctimony, self-righteousness and virtue-signalling.
One party lacks a sense of humour.
One party cancels others.
One party promotes an intellectual dystopia. :skull:


Which party are we talking about, in the American context? :scratch:



cyberdad
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22 Feb 2021, 1:16 am

Feyokien wrote:
Pepe wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
One party promotes human rights,


One party embraces a narrative.
One party engages in weaponised political correctness.
One party plays the racist card.
One party embraces collectivist thinking.
One party embraces binary thinking.
One party inhibits freedom of speech.
One party inhibits freedom of thought.
One party purportedly values diversity, but their actions are contradictory.
One party embraces censorship that affects anyone with a diverse life perspective.
One party embraces the concept that morality is more important than the facts.
One party embraces sanctimony, self-righteousness and virtue-signalling.
One party lacks a sense of humour.
One party cancels others.
One party promotes an intellectual dystopia. :skull:


Which party are we talking about, in the American context? :scratch:


Guess...



Pepe
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22 Feb 2021, 1:26 am

Feyokien wrote:
Pepe wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
One party promotes human rights,


One party embraces a narrative.
One party engages in weaponised political correctness.
One party plays the racist card.
One party embraces collectivist thinking.
One party embraces binary thinking.
One party inhibits freedom of speech.
One party inhibits freedom of thought.
One party purportedly values diversity, but their actions are contradictory.
One party embraces censorship that affects anyone with a diverse life perspective.
One party embraces the concept that morality is more important than the facts.
One party embraces sanctimony, self-righteousness and virtue-signalling.
One party lacks a sense of humour.
One party cancels others.
One party promotes an intellectual dystopia. :skull:


Which party are we talking about, in the American context? :scratch:


This is my personal perspective which I believe applies to other contexts.
A lot of these left-wing tactics/biases I have noticed and experienced here.

In particular, I find the 'binary' strategy particularly curious.
Normally, this would be considered simplistic and an ill-informed way to make a point, but I have the strong impression it is used as a deliberate political weapon.

All progressives are good.
All Republicans are bad.
'Interesting'.

Presumably, this mechanism of closed-minded emotional manipulation was introduced by Saul.
I need to do further research to be sure.



cyberdad
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22 Feb 2021, 1:31 am

Pepe wrote:
All progressives are good.
All Republicans are bad.
'Interesting'.
.


The republicans started loosing the plot when they start electing grand dragons of the KKK, Hollywood action stars and finally a reality TV billionaire to lead their party.

Republicans aren't necessarily bad but their need their heads examined.



Pepe
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22 Feb 2021, 1:42 am

cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
All progressives are good.
All Republicans are bad.
'Interesting'.
.


The republicans started loosing the plot when they start electing grand dragons of the KKK, Hollywood action stars and finally a reality TV billionaire to lead their party.

Republicans aren't necessarily bad but their need their heads examined.


So you are saying *ALL* Republicans voted for "grand dragons of the KKK"?

Regarding Trump, there are many republicans that have distanced themselves from the narcissistic ninny.
Are you say *ALL* Republicans support the narcissistic ninny?

A 'binary' tactic fails miserably, here. 8)



Feyokien
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22 Feb 2021, 2:06 am

Pepe wrote:
Feyokien wrote:
Pepe wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
One party promotes human rights,


One party embraces a narrative.
One party engages in weaponized political correctness.
One party plays the racist card.
One party embraces collectivist thinking.
One party embraces binary thinking.
One party inhibits freedom of speech.
One party inhibits freedom of thought.
One party purportedly values diversity, but their actions are contradictory.
One party embraces censorship that affects anyone with a diverse life perspective.
One party embraces the concept that morality is more important than the facts.
One party embraces sanctimony, self-righteousness and virtue-signalling.
One party lacks a sense of humour.
One party cancels others.
One party promotes an intellectual dystopia. :skull:


Which party are we talking about, in the American context? :scratch:


This is my personal perspective which I believe applies to other contexts.
A lot of these left-wing tactics/biases I have noticed and experienced here.

In particular, I find the 'binary' strategy particularly curious.
Normally, this would be considered simplistic and an ill-informed way to make a point, but I have the strong impression it is used as a deliberate political weapon.

All progressives are good.
All Republicans are bad.
'Interesting'.

Presumably, this mechanism of closed-minded emotional manipulation was introduced by Saul.
I need to do further research to be sure.


I've seen a lot of Republicans seemingly engage in all these things, even on WP. Ironically, what you've described is the narrative of one faction against another here, which is why you probably trigger so many left-leaning Americans. Not saying there aren't left wing people that don't engage in these, even on WP. These seem less like party issues and more like broad human issues related to maintaining or gaining power at the expense of others.



Pepe
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22 Feb 2021, 3:59 am

Feyokien wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Feyokien wrote:
Pepe wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
One party promotes human rights,


One party embraces a narrative.
One party engages in weaponized political correctness.
One party plays the racist card.
One party embraces collectivist thinking.
One party embraces binary thinking.
One party inhibits freedom of speech.
One party inhibits freedom of thought.
One party purportedly values diversity, but their actions are contradictory.
One party embraces censorship that affects anyone with a diverse life perspective.
One party embraces the concept that morality is more important than the facts.
One party embraces sanctimony, self-righteousness and virtue-signalling.
One party lacks a sense of humour.
One party cancels others.
One party promotes an intellectual dystopia. :skull:


Which party are we talking about, in the American context? :scratch:


This is my personal perspective which I believe applies to other contexts.
A lot of these left-wing tactics/biases I have noticed and experienced here.

In particular, I find the 'binary' strategy particularly curious.
Normally, this would be considered simplistic and an ill-informed way to make a point, but I have the strong impression it is used as a deliberate political weapon.

All progressives are good.
All Republicans are bad.
'Interesting'.

Presumably, this mechanism of closed-minded emotional manipulation was introduced by Saul.
I need to do further research to be sure.


I've seen a lot of Republicans seemingly engage in all these things, even on WP. Ironically, what you've described is the narrative of one faction against another here, which is why you probably trigger so many left-leaning Americans. Not saying there aren't left wing people that don't engage in these, even on WP. These seem less like party issues and more like broad human issues related to maintaining or gaining power at the expense of others.


I don't use binaries.
I will never say:
"Only left-leaning individuals behave the way I described."

However, those on the left do tend to use binaries, as an example, on a regular basis, and at this stage, I believe it is part of the left-leaning strategy manual.

BTW, Have you heard of someone called "Saul Alinsky"?