Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

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Josh68
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19 Feb 2023, 12:31 pm

Anybody interested in watching the Rage Against the War Machine rally in Washington can watch it live at the link below.

https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2023/02/19 ... ington-dc/


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Highlander852456
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19 Feb 2023, 12:39 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
If I’m under another entity’s hegemony, I would prefer being under NATO than under Russia.

At least under NATO, I have the relative freedom to debate all potential subjects online. Under Russia, I would be scrutinized, and maybe arrested, if I called Putin a doo-doo head.

I have a vested interest in stopping Russian expansionism. I don’t want to live under their system of secret police and political repression.


I'll add few information with broader take on this if you don't mind.
First of all Russian President Putin is in power for far too long.
Russia is not a western democracy, but it never was.
Since Ivan the terrible to present Russia enjoyed relatively little to no freedom with the exception of Soviet style freedom, which was something better than they ever had before, but still no where close to what west considers freedom.
That being just one problem, the other being that Ukraine is relatively part of Russia historically.
They are a sovereign nation, under attack from Russia, which is something obviously wrong.
Putin is no angel, and apologizing his act is wrong.

But I have the feeling west did nothing in pressing for peace or urging enough Putin to end the war, except few people in TV saying its wrong.
I light of that I find it a little confusing.
There has not been war in Europe for very long.
And its a question of pushing boundaries on both sides.

Also we should accept the real possibility that Doneck and Luhanks and Krym will never be part of Ukraine ever again, as those people voted in referendum to be part of Russia.
Obviously its been questioned whether it was some sort of political manipulation or a actual referendum.
But I think only time will tell.
Guess they would not be fighting for years on if they wanted to be part of Ukraine.



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19 Feb 2023, 10:36 pm

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Update from Ukraine | Ruzzia Prepares the Big Aviation Strike on Ukraine
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Josh68
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19 Feb 2023, 11:58 pm

Pepe wrote:
Josh68 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
What’s keeping you on the side of the Russians?


Look, if you say something that factually incorrect, I will correct it. I'm on the side of truth. I'm on the side of a negotiated peace before more corpses pile up. The truth is there is a Nazi element in the Military. That's not saying it's a Nazi government, alright? I'm against all invasions of this sort.

I'm trying to be nice, but you're making it increasingly difficult.


Yes, there are Neo-Nazi elements on the Ukraine side, but in what proportion?
There are Neo-Nazi elements on the Russian side, but in what proportion?
There are Neo-Nazi elements in Amerria, Australia, the UK, Italy, Germany, etc, etc...

Are we good now? :mrgreen:


There are neo-Nazis everywhere, there's Nazis in your underwear. There're under your bed , they're in your dreams at night.

It's not really the point, is it? The point is the Western media seems to want to redact a lot of information and whitewash the Ukrainian government.

Get it?


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kraftiekortie
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20 Feb 2023, 12:19 am

I don’t care about the Ukrainian government. More about the Ukrainian people.



Pepe
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20 Feb 2023, 2:23 am

Josh68 wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Josh68 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
What’s keeping you on the side of the Russians?


Look, if you say something that factually incorrect, I will correct it. I'm on the side of truth. I'm on the side of a negotiated peace before more corpses pile up. The truth is there is a Nazi element in the Military. That's not saying it's a Nazi government, alright? I'm against all invasions of this sort.

I'm trying to be nice, but you're making it increasingly difficult.


Yes, there are Neo-Nazi elements on the Ukraine side, but in what proportion?
There are Neo-Nazi elements on the Russian side, but in what proportion?
There are Neo-Nazi elements in Amerria, Australia, the UK, Italy, Germany, etc, etc...

Are we good now? :mrgreen:


There are neo-Nazis everywhere, there's Nazis in your underwear. There're under your bed , they're in your dreams at night.

It's not really the point, is it? The point is the Western media seems to want to redact a lot of information and whitewash the Ukrainian government.
Get it?


Seeing what has been redacted IS a problem.
But I am aware of the "NAZIS in Ukraine" propaganda program pootin has engaged in, suggesting Ukraine is riddled with them, however.

Do YOU "get it"? :mrgreen:



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20 Feb 2023, 2:25 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don’t care about the Ukrainian government. More about the Ukrainian people.


I'm also concerned with someone controlling that psychopathic murdering bastardo.



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20 Feb 2023, 5:42 am

Yes there is a Nazi supporting element in the Ukrainian military.

Yes, I believe we and the Germans were factors in creating justifications for Putin and making him popular at home.

But it is now what it is. Walking away from the problem we helped create does not solve that problem. Putin and his successors left completely unchecked will over time end up reuniting a lot of the old Soviet Union. Besides directly affecting those in eastern Europe it will hurt us and especially the Western Europeans economically. We are proving everyday we are quite capable of becoming authoritarian without outside help. None the less a Russian victory will help the process along by giving encouragement to authoritarian elements here.

Ukrainian’s Jewish president is quite willing to use Nazis and the Nazi elements are willing to be commanded by a Jewish president. If they deem the war the greater of the two evils who are we to question there judgement? Zelenskyy lost family in the Holocaust so is quite aware of the monster he is creating.


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20 Feb 2023, 7:39 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Yes there is a Nazi supporting element in the Ukrainian military.

Yes, I believe we and the Germans were factors in creating justifications for Putin and making him popular at home.

But it is now what it is. Walking away from the problem we helped create does not solve that problem. Putin and his successors left completely unchecked will over time end up reuniting a lot of the old Soviet Union. Besides directly affecting those in eastern Europe it will hurt us and especially the Western Europeans economically. We are proving everyday we are quite capable of becoming authoritarian without outside help. None the less a Russian victory will help the process along by giving encouragement to authoritarian elements here.

Ukrainian’s Jewish president is quite willing to use Nazis and the Nazi elements are willing to be commanded by a Jewish president. If they deem the war the greater of the two evils who are we to question there judgement? Zelenskyy lost family in the Holocaust so is quite aware of the monster he is creating.

These are good arguments.


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Highlander852456
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20 Feb 2023, 9:05 am

For those interested this is Noam Chomsky take on it. Pretty interesting....https://chomsky.info/20220408/



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20 Feb 2023, 11:09 am

MaxE wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Yes there is a Nazi supporting element in the Ukrainian military.

Yes, I believe we and the Germans were factors in creating justifications for Putin and making him popular at home.

But it is now what it is. Walking away from the problem we helped create does not solve that problem. Putin and his successors left completely unchecked will over time end up reuniting a lot of the old Soviet Union. Besides directly affecting those in eastern Europe it will hurt us and especially the Western Europeans economically. We are proving everyday we are quite capable of becoming authoritarian without outside help. None the less a Russian victory will help the process along by giving encouragement to authoritarian elements here.

Ukrainian’s Jewish president is quite willing to use Nazis and the Nazi elements are willing to be commanded by a Jewish president. If they deem the war the greater of the two evils who are we to question there judgement? Zelenskyy lost family in the Holocaust so is quite aware of the monster he is creating.

These are good arguments.

I am glad we can finally agree on a political matter.


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20 Feb 2023, 11:42 am

Joe Biden Makes Surprise Visit to Ukraine as Air Raid Sirens Ring Out

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Vladimir Putin never made it to Kyiv, despite spending a year and some $82 billion trying to get there.

Joe Biden arrived in ten hours on a train ride from Poland normally priced at $50 to celebrate Presidents’ Day with Voldoymyr Zelensky. Wearing his signature Ray-Ban aviator sunglasses, Amtrak Joe strolled the capital’s streets accompanied by the promise of an additional $500 million in weapons for Ukraine and the blare of klaxons warning of a possible Mig-31 jet fighter heading south from Belarus and armed with a Kinzhal hypersonic missile. The Ukrainian military has no defense against attack from hypersonic missiles.

The only explosions were back in Moscow, however, where Putin’s televised pitchmen immediately scrambled to muffle the imagery of a U.S. President forgoing the standard protective measures that normally accompany a presidential visit.

Hours before Biden’s appearance under heavy guard alongside Zelensky in Mykhailivska Square, Ukrainian officials told The Daily Beast that the city was under a complete security lockdown. The shroud of secrecy over Biden’s unannounced visit, they added, was made all the more mysterious by no visible indications of the colossal security measures taken prior to the arrival of former presidents in war-zones such as Iraq and Afghanistan.

Putin’s sidekick Sergei Markov told his viewers that his boss had shown generosity in not attacking Kyiv while Biden was in town, where he told the world: “Putin thought he could outlast us, I don’t think he is thinking that right now,” Biden said.” God knows what he’s thinking.

Biden was filmed on Monday morning walking alongside Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky despite air raid sirens sounding throughout Kyiv. The alarm came after Russian aircraft were spotted taking off from airfields in Belarus, the Kyiv Independent reports.

The leaders were seen walking together near St. Michael Cathedral in the center of the Ukrainian capital heading toward a memorial for soldiers killed in fighting against Russia since 2014.

A senior Ukrainian official in Kyiv said Biden’s visit is in part to announce “big new arms deliveries” from the U.S. and the 54-member Ukraine Contact Group of nations.

“It looks like Biden’s 2024 presidential campaign starts in Kyiv,” another Ukrainian official said.

Biden’s trip to war-torn Ukraine looks to be the first time a U.S. President has decided to abandon the usually chiseled-in-stone safety precautions of his predecessors.

White House National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan said Biden made the decision to visit Kyiv on Friday, adding that Zelensky was only alerted to the plan several hours before the president's arrival.


Biden’s Trip to Kyiv is the Ultimate Humiliation for Putin—and Trump
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Kennedy and then Reagan in Berlin. Now Biden in Kyiv.

Periodically during the past sixty years, American presidents have stood up at the Eastern edge of Europe and looked to Russia to say, “We stand with our allies. Our resolve is unshakeable.”

Kennedy said, “Ich bin ein Berliner.” Reagan said, “Mr. Gorbachev tear down that wall.” Biden, on his surprise President’s Day visit to Kyiv said, “One year later, Kyiv stands. And Ukraine strands. Democracy stands.”

Stirringly, just days ahead of the one year anniversary of Russia’s brutal offensive against Ukraine, Biden walked through the streets of Kyiv, paid his respects to those who had fallen in defense of Ukraine, and said, “Freedom is priceless. It’s worth fighting for, for as long as it takes.”

Biden also movingly invoked the conversation he had with Zelensky last February as Russia’s massive escalation of its nine-year-old war of unprovoked aggression against Ukraine. He recalled with Zelensky at his side, “You said you didn’t know when we’d be able to speak again. That dark night…the world was literally bracing for the fall of Kyiv…perhaps even the end of Ukraine.”

Of course, the symbolism of the American president standing alongside Zelensky, walking through the Ukrainian capital even as air raid sirens sounded, carried many other messages as well.

To those fighting for Ukraine, it was a vitally important message of solidarity that came with further commitments from Biden of military support for Ukraine.

To Vladimir Putin, it was Biden’s way of saying, “I am here in Kyiv and you are not. You not only did not take Kyiv in days as some predicted, but your attack was rebuffed. Your army suffered a humiliating defeat from which it has not recovered.”

Biden emphasized this point in the official White House statement about the trip saying, “Putin thought Ukraine was weak and the West was divided. He thought he could outlast us. But he was dead wrong.” Importantly, it was a comment that was underscored in recent days by the significant Congressional delegation that attended the Munich Security Conference to make it very clear, support for Ukraine continues strong in the U.S. and it is bipartisan.

The official White House statement also underscored that Biden’s surprise visit to Ukraine was part of a larger mission, one of solidarity and leadership among America’s European allies. Biden, in the statement said, “I also look forward to traveling on to Poland to meet President Duda and the leaders of our Eastern Flank Allies, as well as deliver remarks on how the United States will continue to rally the world to support the people of Ukraine and the core values of human rights and dignity in the UN Charter that unites us worldwide.”

Biden’s trip sent an important reminder to Beijing just how high a priority Ukraine is for the U.S. and the West and presenting the war in the context of Russia’s violations of international law will emphasize to the Chinese that directly supporting Russia’s attack and serial war crimes would make China an accessory to those crimes. The sanctions China would endure and the rift such a step would incur with the international community would be devastating for China, particularly given the fragility of its economy at the moment.

If there was yet another audience for Biden’s trip, it was naturally, the American people. Biden, in going to Kyiv, offered the clearest possible reminder of his stance against Russian aggression from the first moments of his presidency.

US warned Russia of Biden's visit to Ukraine 'hours' before departure
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U.S. officials warned Russia that President Biden was visiting the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv hours before he made the trip, the White House National Security Council revealed Monday.

National security officials provided more details about Biden's surprise trip to Ukraine on Monday, calling the trip unprecedented given the lack of U.S. military infrastructure in the war-torn region. Reporters pressed national security adviser Jake Sullivan on whether the U.S. had warned Moscow that Biden was headed to Kyiv, a city scarred with Russian missile strikes.

"We did notify the Russians that President Biden would be traveling to Kyiv," Sullivan told reporters Monday. "We did so some hours before his departure for de-confliction purposes."

Sullivan declined to elaborate on how the Russians were notified and whether they responded, however.


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20 Feb 2023, 5:37 pm

Joe Biden's 'blank cheque' Ukraine policy attacked by Ron DeSantis

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Florida governor Ron DeSantis attacked Joe Biden's "blank-cheque policy" towards Ukraine after the US president made a surprise trip to Kyiv on Monday.

Mr DeSantis, the popular Republican governor and likely presidential candidate, added his voice to those concerns on Monday, warning against unlimited spending.

He told Fox News: "[The Biden administration] have effectively a blank-cheque policy with no clear, strategic objective identified, and these things can escalate.

"I don't think it's in our interests to be getting into a proxy war with China, getting involved over things like the borderlands or over Crimea."

Mr DeSantis, who is considered Donald Trump's most likely 2024 Republican rival, added: "I think it would behoove them to identify what is the strategic objective that they're trying to achieve, but just saying it's an open-ended blank cheque, that is not acceptable".

Mr DeSantis argued Russia's war in Ukraine may never have happened "but for the weakness that the president showed" on the global stage, in particular during the chaotic US withdrawal from Afghanistan.

He added: "So I think while he's over there, I think I and many Americans are thinking to ourselves, okay, 'He's very concerned about those borders halfway around the world. He's not done anything to secure our own border here at home'."

The governor made the comments while on a multi-state "law and order" tour of Democrat-held cities offering a "blueprint" to fight crime, fuelling further speculation he is preparing to mount a presidential bid.


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21 Feb 2023, 1:37 am

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'Everything is sinking': Hear Wagner leader discuss supply problems
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Yevgeny Prigozhin, head of the Russian private military company Wagner, acknowledged a "major problem" with ammunition supplies for his troops, amid a public spat with the leaders of Russia's defense establishment.




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21 Feb 2023, 1:56 am

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Defector of Russian mercenary group speaks out | ABCNL
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ABC News' Patrick Reevell reports that some in the U.S want to label The Wagner Group, a secretive Russian paramilitary unit operating in Ukraine, as a terrorist organization.




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21 Feb 2023, 1:57 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Joe Biden's 'blank cheque' Ukraine policy attacked by Ron DeSantis
Quote:
Florida governor Ron DeSantis attacked Joe Biden's "blank-cheque policy" towards Ukraine after the US president made a surprise trip to Kyiv on Monday.

Mr DeSantis, the popular Republican governor and likely presidential candidate, added his voice to those concerns on Monday, warning against unlimited spending.

He told Fox News: "[The Biden administration] have effectively a blank-cheque policy with no clear, strategic objective identified, and these things can escalate.

"I don't think it's in our interests to be getting into a proxy war with China, getting involved over things like the borderlands or over Crimea."

Mr DeSantis, who is considered Donald Trump's most likely 2024 Republican rival, added: "I think it would behoove them to identify what is the strategic objective that they're trying to achieve, but just saying it's an open-ended blank cheque, that is not acceptable".

Mr DeSantis argued Russia's war in Ukraine may never have happened "but for the weakness that the president showed" on the global stage, in particular during the chaotic US withdrawal from Afghanistan.

He added: "So I think while he's over there, I think I and many Americans are thinking to ourselves, okay, 'He's very concerned about those borders halfway around the world. He's not done anything to secure our own border here at home'."

The governor made the comments while on a multi-state "law and order" tour of Democrat-held cities offering a "blueprint" to fight crime, fuelling further speculation he is preparing to mount a presidential bid.


Go, uncle Joe! Hooah! 8)