Obamacare

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RandyG
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23 Oct 2013, 5:10 pm

simon_says wrote:

There is no question that a cleaning lady would have access to subsidies for exchange insurance. Probably very good subsidies. She's very likely the person you are complaining about getting "free" things even though it won't be entirely free.

She could have been receiving government assistance a long time ago. Certainly six years ago, when her husband died, and probably before that. What I doubt you can understand is: she doesn't want it. She has been providing for her family, herself, very nicely by working hard and living frugally. Now she must either struggle to find money for the mandatory insurance, or be forced to accept what she will regard as alms. The ACA is taking away her choices and her dignity. Shame on anyone who thinks this is a good thing.

If Obamacare were really going to magically lower everyone's rates and improve everyone's coverage, as supporters claim, it could be implemented on a 100% voluntary basis, and after a year or two we doubters would be lining up to sign on as well. The fact that it has to be enforced at gunpoint proves that it's just another power-grabbing, redistributionist, vote-buying scheme.

auntblabby
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23 Oct 2013, 5:14 pm

RandyG wrote:

shame on YOU for even suggesting that we should all be like her, which if you had your way that is exactly what would be the case.

RandyG wrote:

If Obamacare were really going to magically lower everyone's rates and improve everyone's coverage, as supporters claim, it could be implemented on a 100% voluntary basis, and after a year or two we doubters would be lining up to sign on as well. The fact that it has to be enforced at gunpoint proves that it's just another power-grabbing, redistributionist, vote-buying scheme.

you know nothing about the economics of health care, do you?

Jacoby
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23 Oct 2013, 5:15 pm

Government incompetence might do what the shutdown could not, delay the individual mandate. Hilarious.

300,000 people just lost their insurance coverage in Florida, so much for being able to keep your plan.

auntblabby
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23 Oct 2013, 5:19 pm

not all plans are worth keeping. ones that only pretend to cover medical expenses are not worth the money in the first place.

simon_says
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23 Oct 2013, 5:27 pm

RandyG wrote:

simon_says wrote:

A) I don't believe for one minute that this woman exists or believes as you say. No mother would be happy with uninsured kids. Maybe a mentally ill one.
B) Those who really can't afford it are exempt. It can't cost more than 8% of income. If she gets subsidies it will be much, much less.
C) Insurance is a shared risk pool. If you don't include low risk people the rates climb. If car insurance was just bought by 18-25 year olds it would be unaffordable.
D) That you don't even understand the arguments of the other side at this late stage says much more about you than Obamacare.
E) The shame is all yours though you might not understand why.

Quote:

We have a friend, a widow, who supports her three children by working as a cleaning lady; she already couldn't afford insurance at pre-ACA rates, but now has to somehow either buy even more expensive insurance or pay a hefty fine for not being able to afford it.

That quote is your previous claim. Don't move the goalposts on me and expect me not to notice. :lol:

You've got the wrong guy Hoss.

Kraichgauer
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23 Oct 2013, 8:39 pm

RandyG-

In regard to your assertion that the ACA should be 100% voluntary, the last time I checked, social security and medicare are hardly voluntary, yet they are highly successful, allowing people to actually grow old and remain healthy, fed, clothed, and housed.

_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

ruveyn
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23 Oct 2013, 9:01 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Social Security will go belly up in ten to twenty years or so. When SS was first implemented under the New Deal 35 American Workers paid in for ever 1 retired worker receiving benefits. Now it is 2.5 workers kick in for every beneficiary receiving some kind of social security money. Social security has been expanded well beyond its original goal of supporting people in their old age. Now SS benefits go to younger beneficiaries, feeble minded beneficiaries and such like. SS has become a generalized income redistribution program which burdens younger workers with children to provide benefits that they themselves will never receive because the program is going broke.

ruveyn

auntblabby
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23 Oct 2013, 9:08 pm

what happens to the feebleminded ones if you take their bennies from them?

ruveyn
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23 Oct 2013, 9:12 pm

auntblabby wrote:

what happens to the feebleminded ones if you take their bennies from them?

They will remain feeble minded. If we are going to support mental defectives I suggest that we not burden SS with that task.

Let us have MoronCare, exactly the kind of program that Liberals love.

Let Obama push thru the MCA (Moran Care Act).

ruveyn

auntblabby
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23 Oct 2013, 9:31 pm

wow i can just feel the warmth.

ruveyn
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23 Oct 2013, 9:32 pm

auntblabby wrote:

wow

i can just feel the warmth.

You find a straight forward sensible proposal not to your liking?

auntblabby
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23 Oct 2013, 9:34 pm

ruveyn wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

wow

i can just feel the warmth.

You find a straight forward sensible proposal not to your liking?

i find calling them the name you called them to be depressing because i am not far from that category in the view of many people in my life.

RandyG
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23 Oct 2013, 9:36 pm

auntblabby wrote:

shame on YOU for even suggesting that we should all be like her

She is someone I admire tremendously. She is scrupulously honest, deeply decent, and doesn't believe that anyone owes her a living. Had she entered the workforce as a young adult I am certain she would have achieved great things in whatever field she she chose. Instead she has managed to raise three terrific, bright, honest, independent-minded teenagers, which is quite an accomplishment. Yes, I think this would be a much better world if there were more people like her. What's your gripe? What exactly do you hate, the honesty, the decency, or the independence?

Quote:

you know nothing about the economics of health care, do you?

I can say with considerable confidence that I knew more about economics twenty years ago than you are ever likely to learn. 'I have decided that I need X, therefore I have the right to hold a gun to people's heads until someone gives me X' is not economics. It is thuggery.

If statists knew anything about economics, they wouldn't be statists.

beneficii
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23 Oct 2013, 9:36 pm

ruveyn wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

what happens to the feebleminded ones if you take their bennies from them?

Lots of people on this board could be said to be "mental defectives."

ruveyn
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23 Oct 2013, 9:37 pm

auntblabby wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

wow

i can just feel the warmth.

You find a straight forward sensible proposal not to your liking?

i find calling them the name you called them to be depressing because i am not far from that category in the view of many people in my life.

Since when is "moron" a dirty word. It is in the dictionary. What should we call them? Some PC term like "mentally challenged"??? Or perhaps "neurologically deficient"???

auntblabby
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23 Oct 2013, 9:43 pm

RandyG wrote:

What exactly do you hate, the honesty, the decency, or the independence?

i hate you telling me i need to conform to your idea of a proper human being, i hate your horatio alger inferences. i hate your rampant individualism. i am the way god made me and that is different from how god made you. we all can't be like you. deal with it.

RandyG wrote:

I can say with considerable confidence that I knew more about economics twenty years ago than you are ever likely to learn. 'I have decided that I need X, therefore I have the right to hold a gun to people's heads until someone gives me X' is not economics. It is thuggery. If statists knew anything about economics, they wouldn't be statists.

once again, taxation for the common good IS NOT THEFT. if you don't like socialism then get off the highway!

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