Conservative and Right Wing cancel culture

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In America, they were denied freedom. Then after being freed, they were relegated to second class citizenship. I think I'd rather take my chances free, and among people who cared about me.

Unlike you I work in the higher education sector. You need to understand some basic facts before debating
1. CRT is not taught in primary or secondary schools
2. Highschool students are taught American history. Currently its republicans who wanting to force the curriculum to be edited to remove/omit any content that casts white Americans in a bad light.
3. CRT in college/University is primarily presented in the context of liberal Arts degrees in terms of teaching adults the role of racism in evolution of modern social and political structures. As adults university students are capable of weighing up the evidence themselves in a critical manner (strengths Vs weaknesses) using published evidence. Critical thinking is an essential skill for any university graduate. It's what separates a University graduate from a community college. It does not follow any narrative, it teaches students to take evidence and think for themselves when writing essays. It's not rocket science.
Critical thinking (something Trump supporters are incapable off) is the cornerstone of a university degree and CRT is always going to be part of the curriculum of any sociology, history or psychology degree. CRT does not apply to any other degree. Republicans who claim otherwise are lying.

Almost all of the people criticising CRT have no qualification to be criticising it. Its apparent they don't know what they are talking about.

A lot of people currently debating CRT are unaware the "history wars" has been going on behind the scenes since after WWII and decolonisation started. The underlying debate that is 70 years old now is what some conservatives refer to as the "Black armband view of history" .
It essentially boils down to two perspectives
Conservatives - Europe bought enlightenment, technology, civilisation to the rest of the world who were living in a primitive state
Progressives - colonial empires were parasitic/racist, enslaved and killed millions and looted wealth from around the world. Modern societies are a legacy of these empires and organisational structures are inherited from these times.

Essentially both are correct to varying degrees.

Yep. Both are correct to varying degrees.

I DO teach in primary and secondary schools. I know for a fact this is a lie.


Except when there are those of us who take an active interest in pop culture and postmodern scholarship.

You don’t seem to understand the meaning of the word “Critical” in CRT. It has nothing to do with critical thinking. It has to do with analyzing the fragmentation of cultural identities in order to challenge constructs such as metanarratives and rationality. The whole purpose is to radically change society, which in this context is how “critical” is defined. It doesn’t end with merely thinking about things. The “C” in CRT is meaningless without action.

You are trying to apply a rational framework to a philosophy that rejects reason. CRT is not about evidence. It is about narrative. It’s about creating your own reality. I’ve studied this stuff at the graduate level, though it’s been a while. I’ve read Baudrillard, Adorno, Derrida, and one or two others. I’ve read Sojourner Truth, Dubois, Douglass. I’ve read Crenshaw, and more recently Robin DiAngelo. I’m trying to familiarize myself more with the Frankfurt School, but for now the essentials from Das Kapital will have to do. Honestly, the basics of CRT aren’t that difficult to pick up.

CRT has a big problem with evidence-based dialogue. If you understood CRT, you’d know that. The problem with arguing evidence in this context is that the scientific method and traditional scholarly discourse was founded by white Europeans to serve white, European interests. Western scholarship founded on evidence-based reasoning and objectivity is largely self-serving. It ignores the lived experience of the African American community. What is it I keep hearing on WP? Ah, yes…anecdotes are not evidence. But because white people aren’t interested in the welfare of blacks, they aren’t going to collect and analyze evidence pertaining to black concerns. They (whites) conveniently point to lack of evidence as an excuse to ignore black issues or to invalidate hidden racism. So all black people are left with are their narrative, their stories. If all you are primarily concerned with is “evidence,” you may want to rethink your views on the merits of CRT.

OH…and about that lie that CRT isn’t taught in primary/secondary schools? Education undergrads have to take those courses, too. Who do you think ends up teaching children? And whose curriculum do they end up teaching? Parents won’t easily tolerate their kids being taught to feel ashamed because they were born with a certain skin color.

Example of narrative over evidence:

Recently I was arguing Canada’s oh-so-awesome healthcare system versus American, specifically that Canada is not the paradise my Canadian friend was orgasmically proclaiming it to be. Sure, Canada has a socialized healthcare system. But do all Canadians have free ACCESS to healthcare? And if they don’t have access to free healthcare, is it really free?

So I did a little Googling, because, common sense, nobody’s perfect. There’s always some dirt out there. You just have to want to dig it.

Sure enough, First Nations people have limited access to the healthcare system in Canada…for a variety of reasons, of course, but there it is. Blacks in Canada have limited access also. But you’d never know that because there’s no “evidence” of this, that care providers deny treatment and medicine to POC. So why are people out there saying they can’t get care in Canada when no evidence reflects that? It’s because Canada does not collect racial or ethnic statistics on Canadians. The rationale is that collecting racial stats contributes to discrimination. What it does NOT prevent, though, is a Canadian doctor from rolling his eyes and saying, “oh no, not one of THOSE people again” when a black woman comes in with a migraine.

But there’s no EVIDENCE, so everything must be good in Canada, eh?

THAT is why narrative is so important, since “evidence” is just another construct that serves only white interests.

Coverage of any kind is better than none, when it's denied due to poverty or pre-existing condition. What you're talking about is human prejudice, not failings in the Canadian system itself.

And the Canadian system isn’t populated by human beings? WHITE human beings? I’m sure it’s a great system…as long as you aren’t one of “those people.”

I'm sorry but in Australia it's impossible to teach primary and secondary concurrently. Teachers are trained to specialise in one form of education
pre-primary
primary
secondary
tertiary - vocational
tertiary - university or college

Secondly if you are teaching secondary school you aren't teaching CRT,

Finally primary aged kids aren't taught about serious applied race based studies as their minds are too young to understand the concepts, They are however taught about human diversity.

CRT teaches about race. The first principle is that race (in historical context) was developed as a social construct. In the 19th century it had no biological basis. It was applied as a political/legal tool to control subjugated populations by arbitrarily placing them in an artificial heirarchy with wh***y on top.

In the early 20th century attempts were made through the eugenics movement to demonstrate this heirarchy has some biological basis (retrospectively of course as race had been laid down as a legal construct for 400 years already). All attempts since the eugenics movement have failed to demonstrate that inter-ethnic genetic differences are significantly different to intra-ethnic differences.

What CRT attempts to do is to show how race has therefore been applied in creation of the modern world - social classes, political systems, organisational structures. It is naive to consider race to be the only factor in developing the modern world but it has been a significant contributing factor in systemic discrimination and the critical bit is to demonstrate to students how it remains a systemic problem in the police, judicial system, employment etc.

University is not about shoving narratives/propaganda down kids throats like what the MAGA people are claiming. it is about presenting evidence and weighing up strengths and weaknesses of that evidence.

We have conservatives in our country who think like your MAGAs that higher education breeds future socialist leaning graduates. The proof is that despite Trump's right wing extremism that nearly 50% of white college educated Americans voted for Trump in 2016 and a similar proportion in 2020. This is firm proof that CRT in college has no influence on how white Americans vote.

Therefore the argument that CRT is having a negative impact on white kids is a lie.

You're going out of your way not to understand what I'm posting, aren't you?

Canada does collect stats on race and ethnicity including people who claim Indigenous heritage, along with gender identification, income, education, ability, and citizenship status.

I'm curious to know why you characterise a Canadian doctor as being a racist and sexist white male, when in fact none of my doctors are men. Not even my dentists who are Iraqi women.

Here are some demographics on doctors in Canada, including gender and country of training:

https://www.cma.ca/quick-facts-canadas-physicians

Young physicians are 64% female, and roughly 25% are from foreign medical schools. Don't forget that Canada's own medical schools are highly international and multicultural. The Top 3 schools are in Montreal (Jewish, Muslim, Middle Eastern, European), Toronto (Asian, black), and Vancouver (Asian). I'm describing the local population of those cities as well as the main demographic of their students whether Canadian citizens or International visitors and landed immigrants. There are initiatives to get more Indigenous men and women into health care and public health programs.

56% of first-year med school students are female.

Actually I'm thinking through my list of doctors and specialists: An Italian woman, Lebanese woman, Chinese woman, French Black Muslim woman, Jewish woman, Iranian woman, and an Irish woman. Then the Iraqi women dentists and my Syrian woman ophthalmologist. The only men I can think of are two specialists for my daughter - one is an older Korean man, and one is a man from India who speaks primarily Hindi, with a translator.

For Autism, my OT is a Jewish woman (lesbian, if that matters). My Speech Therapist is a black woman from Liverpool. My psychologist is a European woman. My stroke therapists were Asian women. My Physiotherapist is an Indian woman who speaks Punjabi.

I'm struggling to think of any white men at all, apart from a Russian paramedical who has taught around the world and published several books for medical schools.

The problem with Canadian healthcare is that there aren't enough doctors for remote communities / the North.

[DISCLAIMER: I think you are probably right. I don’t disagree with you. What follows is purely through a CRT lens.]

Ok, that’s great that YOU had good experiences. But the “evidence” you’ve cited doesn’t reflect the lived experience of POC and immigrants in places like, say, Toronto where people have either been denied care outright, or they’ve had to wait for hours to get treatment. Or when minorities DO get treatment, doctors are rude and abusive towards them.

Check your privilege, Karen. You have access to health care any time you want. What about those in Toronto too afraid of being disrespected to even show up? If you can’t even get to the doctor’s office, it doesn’t matter if health care is “free.”

Ok, so calling you Karen might be taking it too far. My apologies. You kinda HAVE to say those things as a woman out of patriarchal indoctrination. So I get it. But still, you are denying the lived experience of women of color in your country.

There are certainly problems, from my viewpoint, with some aspects of CRT.

Nevertheless, I do believe in instruction in “true history.”

Just like anywhere else, Canada has people who experience problems getting health care, for whatever reason. I’ve heard of long waiting lists for surgery, for example.

And the COVID guidelines, from what I heard, are much stricter than they are in the US. It seemed much harder at the peak of COVID to get in-person appointments in Canada than in NYC, for example.

She worked hard to get it.


People say a lot of thing out of indoctrination...that's human nature.



Here in UK we have 6 million people waiting for medical treatment because of COVID. People are doing they best they can under the circumstances.

1 - Where did I say I've had good experiences? I didn't mention my experiences at all in that post. In fact I've written at length on WP about the difficulties I've had receiving proper medical care as a mute, agoraphobic autistic woman. I'm "too afraid to show up" just like you described. That's my lived experience. When I had a stroke I was told I was likely drunk, and the doctor tried to send me home from hospital because I didn't act like a Neuro-typical. I've had horrible interactions with many doctors including some who thought I was schizophrenic because I had a sensory meltdown, some who refused treatment because I cried in pain, and others who refused treatment because I couldn't describe my symptoms. I'm afraid of all interactions with doctors or any members of the public because of the way I've been treated as a minority. Let's not forget that disabled women and women with mental health concerns are a minority, and I've lived that first hand. My daughter's disabilities are invisible and I've seen the way she's treated, too. Do you have stats for disabled minorities and their access to proper health care?

2 - I'm not a POC or visible racial minority so I can't speak for those people. Are you a visible racial minority in Canada? What I can say is that in Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver hospitals yes, the wait can be 10 hours for care. People are triaged like anywhere else. I've sat 10 hours before with the room full of visible minority patients. The urban areas are highly multicultural, including the doctors, nurses, and admin staff. All patients who present are seen. I can't speak to their followup care but I doubt either can you, based on reading studies from wherever you live. I can barely speak to my own follow up care. My best friends are Jamaican and Trinidadian. They've never witnessed discrimination from doctors (yes, we've discussed it before). I'm not denying that there is a problem of access for many Indigenous communities and that Liberal public policy hurts Indigenous communities outside of urban centres. The lack of access to clean drinking water is just the beginning. I believe the health system is imperfect and yes there are long wait times, but I found it odd that you characterised a Canadian doctor as a pompous white male, when I've never even met such a professional. That's all I was trying to address.

3 - A good family friend who is in her 20s is studying a PhD in Epidemiology and Public Health in a major urban centre. 80% of her class is female including many students from around the world. Her area of research is Indigenous Health Care and she'll be going on an internship to some of those remote communities, so I'll ask her for input for this part of your post.

4 - Wait. I'm a Karen? LOL. That's a good one. Thanks for the laugh. Karen is a sexist term, in case you weren't aware. It's pejorative against women who are informed, who use their voice to self-advocate and access support instead of bowing to "patriarchal indoctrination" -- although I guess you don't appreciate the irony of your words.

5 - I don't know what CRT is. I don't use acronyms, generalise about other people's experiences, or call people sexist terms, so I can't speak to any of that.

Thanks for your interest in something you seem not to have lived, though.

I’m going to break character for now. I don’t feel right exploiting what you said to make a point if you’ve genuinely had some problems. Maybe if I give a brief explanation, it will make sense.

CRT = Critical Race Theory. It’s a cross-disciplinary worldview that at its most basic level classifies all blacks as oppressed people and all white people as racist.

What I WOULD have started with was that you are a victim of a patriarchal, ableist society. There are intersectional layers of oppression (sex, disability) of which you are a victim. I’d have gone on line-by-line to analyze your experience in those terms.

And yes, the intention of using “Karen” was purposefully ironic. The message is you have privileged life, rich husband, and you’re sheltered from the harsh realities of single, black mothers. You can be “informed” all you want, but as long as you maintain a privileged lifestyle, you can’t speak to someone else’s reality.

Critical Race Theory seeks to convince you that you are a victim because you are autistic and a woman. That’s the intersectional aspect of CRT. While they would still consider you somewhat racist, they would understand your racism in terms of patriarchal indoctrination and be somewhat sympathetic.