California overturned gay-marriage ban today!

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Kalister1
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19 May 2008, 2:01 pm

greenblue wrote:

oscuria wrote:

Ah.

Atheists are against seeing anything referring to religion in public.

To be fair, not all atheists, but some do.

Im going to start putting Nietzsche quotes in public.

"Christianity is the religion of pity"

Odin
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19 May 2008, 2:05 pm

slowmutant wrote:

Odin wrote:

oscuria wrote:

This still doesn't change that marriage is between man and woman. The practices might have changed throughout the centuries of our existence, but it has not changed the tradition and interpretation of marriage being between a man and woman.

"Marriage" is a social construct and thus it is anything society says it is. Tradition doesn't matter.

Tradition matters to those who have traditions. Be careful what you say.

An immoral, bigoted tradition is a tradition that shouldn't exist

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slowmutant
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19 May 2008, 2:11 pm

Traditions are what they are. Whether or not they "deserve" to exist is irrelevant. Bad traditions can flourish just as easily as good traditions. But the older they are, the less fickle & arbitrary they tend to be.

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19 May 2008, 2:20 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Well, it depends on whether homosexual relationships are equivalent to heterosexual relationships.
Arbitrarily assuming they are equivalent doesn't automatically make them so.

No, but what is the real difference? We have a holy book for a specific religion, and we have social feelings that are related to that religion's relationship to our culture. Other than that, what does it matter what mouth one kisses?

Homosexuality beggars logic.
We need not look to religion to question it, or to think it beyond odd.
It grosses out both the religious and the non-religious alike.
Beyond the mouths that we kiss
are issues of extreme aberration too many to list,
and I think it's clear you are deliberately overlooking and minimizing those.
Pretending homosexual marriage is the same thing as
heterosexual marriage is just that: pretending.
One can strain to think of it as "normal",
but it is anything but.

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Awesomelyglorious
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19 May 2008, 2:41 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Sure we do need to question it. Our own aversion to it, is a cultural aversion given cultures such as the Greeks and Romans who had this more prominently. The issue is that you are assuming that all people inherently hold your attitudes towards homosexuality, which, your opponents would seem to reject on this matter as they are assuming that there is no difference and not thinking twice on that matter.

slowmutant wrote:

But the older they are, the less fickle & arbitrary they tend to be.

Well, no, the distinguishing mark of a tradition tends to be it's fickle arbitrariness as if it did not seem fickle or arbitrary then it would not have to have the label of "tradition", I mean, perhaps you can give some examples, but this does not seem true.

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19 May 2008, 2:44 pm

It does seem to be true. In fact, it is true. You don't like traditions? You can't escape them so long as you are living and breathing on this planet.

Kalister1
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19 May 2008, 2:48 pm

slowmutant wrote:

It does seem to be true. In fact, it is true. You don't like traditions? You can't escape them so long as you are living and breathing on this planet.

Extracting an ought from an is.

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19 May 2008, 2:50 pm

Marriage really isn't a religious institution. Even if religions all have their little feet in the market, it's now a primarily civil institution. Married couples gain thousands of legal rights, and to deny that to same-sex couples is unconstitutional.

Laws should be based on secular principles for secular purposes, not based on religious bigotry.

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slowmutant
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19 May 2008, 2:51 pm

Quote:

Extracting an ought from an is.

Extracted from Kalister's bum.

Kalister1
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19 May 2008, 3:04 pm

slowmutant wrote:

Quote:

Extracting an ought from an is.

Extracted from Kalister's bum.

Nice one, you religious people certainly know how to flaunt your intellectual abilities (not) :roll:

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19 May 2008, 3:07 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

No, I am not assuming that all people hold my attitudes.
I am stating that most people do, which is backed up by poll after poll.

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19 May 2008, 3:08 pm

slowmutant wrote:

It does seem to be true. In fact, it is true. You don't like traditions? You can't escape them so long as you are living and breathing on this planet.

Sure you can. You just ignore them!

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19 May 2008, 3:14 pm

Ragtime wrote:

No, I am not assuming that all people hold my attitudes.
I am stating that most people do, which is backed up by poll after poll.

Well, ok, but that still brings up the issue of whether or not simple distaste merits disallowing something and to what extent. Frankly, I would not want my life run by the masses for they are dumbasses.

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19 May 2008, 3:21 pm

Teoka wrote:

It's your phrase "deny that to" which misrepresents the situation.
Gay couples are not man and wife; they're a couple o' dudes or a couple o' gals
having fun together.
Therefore, it's a case of impersonation when they seek legal marital benefits.
Neither should people get free bread by self-identifying as birds. :lol:

Teoka wrote:

Laws should be based on secular principles for secular purposes, not based on religious bigotry.

Sounds like you're advocating secular bigotry over religious principles.

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Last edited by Ragtime on 19 May 2008, 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

slowmutant
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19 May 2008, 3:22 pm

I'm sure there are lots of things in society which you find distasteful and wish to abolish. This goes both ways.

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19 May 2008, 3:24 pm

slowmutant wrote:

I'm sure there are lots of things in society which you find distasteful and wish to abolish. This goes both ways.

Umm.... yeah, I only argue to abolish impositions on others or myself actually, not so much to limit the capability for people to act.

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California overturned gay-marriage ban today!