The appeal of online Incel communities to autistic men

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Got peer reviewed science on that?

I've not found it yet.
The closest related thing I've found is that the entire alpha male concept is myth,

Wolf packs don’t actually have alpha males and alpha females,
the idea is based on a misunderstanding
The researcher who introduced this term tried to clear the confusion up two decades ago, but the myth still lives on.
https://sciencenorway.no/ulv/wolf-packs ... ng/1850514

They kind of do. In wild wolf packs, the alpha pair, male and female, are simply parents of the rest of the pack. Other pack members are ranked based on age, decreasing from teenagers to babies, not their status/strength. Adult males break off from the pack right at full maturity; adult females stay around slightly longer to help care for the cubs. The only exception is the adult omega wolf of either sex; lacking physical strength, it's tolerated in the pack and gets the minimum to eat not to die, but is treated poorly by other pack members.

Now, in captive wolf packs, sexual Greek-letter ranking emerges, like in primates (which includes humans). It's based on dominance and aggression in both males and females. The females, of course, desire toughest males. Why? Captive wolves live in artificial environments, like humans in schools and in prisons; they don't want to be there, but they have to make do with what they have. So their sexual and social ranks degrade into the dog-eat-dog (pardon the pun!) ranks of primates, rather than the mostly-egalitarian wolf packs.

No, I’m equally interested in men and women.

---

Yawn, Please Do Get Educated; The So-Called "Father of the Alpha Male"
Frans de Waal, Has Already Cleared Up the

MYTH That SO-CALLED Alpha Males

Are Only Based on Physical Prowess;

Nope, True Alpha Males; True
Leaders Are Servant Leaders who
Display the Most Empathy And Compassion

From the First to the Last of All Who Exist in the
Social Group; In Fact, Someone Like Donald Trump
Is the Anti-Thesis of 'Alpha Males' in the Wild of Chimps;

He Would Be Kicked Out of Office After the first Term; And
Yes That's What Happened; He Wasn't Thrown Off the Cliff
As A Dude With Zero Levels of Empathy; Yet He Was Solidly

VOTED OUT
OF OFFICE
AS A BIGGGEST
LOSER BY 8 MILLION VOTES.

HERE'S HOW IT GOES: LEAD, FOLLOW,
OR GET THE F OUT OF THE WAY AS THAT

APPLIES TO SOCIAL WELFARE FOR THE LEAST
AMONG US OR GETTING CHILDREN OUT OF A CLASSROOM
OCCUPIED BY A 'MAN' WHO IS CAUGHT UP IN THE SAME 'LITTLE
MAN SYNDROME' THAT DONALD TRUMP STILL CLEARLY HAS; Yes,

AND EVERYONE ELSE
LIKE HIM DEVOID
OF HUMAN
EMPATHY
AND COMPASSION

AND ALL THE Q-ANON
CRAP; AND INCEL COMMUNITY
CR8P THAT GOES ALONG WITH THAT;

IN FACT, AS FAR AS WOMEN GO; At Least Research
Shows, They Are actually More Attracted to Married Men
Who Are in Solid Relationships With Beautiful Women; Yes,

And Even More So, The More Beautiful A Woman They Love;

True That's Part of Nature too; However, it is Just Attraction;

if the Dude Were to Leave His Wife, the Attraction Would Likely Go Away;

'Fairy Tales'

Are the
Source of
Many 'Fantasies'
Indeed; Yet When

It Comes to Humanity,

Love is the Glue That Has
Really Assured We've Come this Far Yet.

If Ya Want to Truly Lose in this World as Far As REAL LOVE Goes;

Put Emotional Intelligence Last and Material Reductionism First; Body Parts and All 'That STUFF.'

https://www.newsweek.com/married-men-single-women-dating-relationships-797380



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPsSKKL8N0s

---

I don't think this true though, and peoples behavior is because of external factors, rather than dna.

Otherwise no one would address how people are influenced by certain things. If behavior was encoded in dna, than influence wouldn't exist.

For example, there seems to be a lot more beta-males on younger generations compared to older. So it seems that is external influence based and not dna encoded therefore.

It's diet. Today's food contains 100+ times more soy than anything in the past 1000 years. Soy is cheap---not to mention it gets huge government subsidies,---and it helps "pad" otherwise healthy, normal food, thus lowering production costs and raising corporate profits. Soy also contains phytosterols that neutralize testosterone, resulting in a feminizing effect on young men. Alpha-ness is determine by testosterone levels. And by consuming soy, increasingly large numbers of men make themselves undesirable to women by reducing the testosterone levels in their bodies. (In fact, Chrome didn't even recognize the typos in "testosterone"; it just pretended the word didn't exist. )

After all, Red Pill terms "soyboy" and "soyciety" don't exist in a vacuum. They exist because of what ConAgra and other agribusinesses are putting into our food supply, turning our young men into feminized shadows of their former selves.

On a brighter note, it may be possible to make oneself more alpha with testosterone supplements and/or getting testosterone therapy with injections, implants, etc. But because the Red Pill science is so new, even male-centered clinics know little about testosterone's effect on sexual desirability.

Working and learning to drive helped me with self esteem and confidence

This is a joke, right?

Where are all these “feminized shadows?” Where I live, masculine youth are still playing as many sports and happily getting as many head concussions as they ever did (since you’ve been glorifying stereotypical masculine behavior…).

Also, soy does not have as extreme of an effect as you are depicting…at all.

Well if the soy thing is true, women are also becoming more masculine today than before, so what would be causing that then?

I think gives a little more clarity on causal reasons for why many (if not all) of the incel mass shooters get tipped over the edge. Don't forget, a lot of young teenagers and young men also choose suicide as well. This is a very controversial subject and there is some risk my post will be deleted. But some of the factors I identify do overlaps with what you are pointing out from the literature
1. Being ignored by female peers (crux of the issue)
2. being ignored my male peers (this is not always the case since the two Canadian mass murders were both very popular in their school) which when it happens contributes to loneliness and lack of peer support
3. Being humiliated by female peers (I also think this is a misattribution by the men where they may come across as creepy or innapropriate so mistake female rejection as deliberate humiliation)
4. Being bullied (a lot of the bullying is from male peers but we need to recognise that female classmates also conform to group norms so join in humiliating the young men).
5, Being targeted by females (I have seen this with my own eyes where females get a kick out of independently giving some hope to a young man only to humiliate them (there have also been cases of highschool girls telling their male friends to commit suicide).
6. Domestic violence and abuse (this is often difficult to entangle but PTSD from childhood could also be a contributing factor).

Rivka Wolf
Jul 18, 2021
5 min read
Humiliating Men for Kicks
It’s always easier to blame a scapegoat

2.1K Followers I’m the little girl who lived down the lane. Much appreciation to David Lynch. This generation of little girls are speaking for ourselves.

https://medium.com/fourth-wave/toxic-fe ... db330e104d
"
I’ve done the same. Actually, I’ve said much worse.

I wish I could tell you for sure why we do this. Why we deliberately flirt, or put that tone into our voices, or rub up against boys who we’re not remotely interested in. Guys have locker room talk, and that’s pretty awful, true, but we? We have this.

Women have this thing we do. It knits us together. It comprises the main themes and primary topic of conversation in countless romantic comedies and women-centered TV comedies. I wish I could tell you it’s just misogyny thinking women get together and say these things, but it’s not.

Women get together and we say these things to each other. We talk about how we have deliberately swiveled our hips and tossed our hair over our backs to make men want us. Now they want us, and we? We are pissed.

Why? What exactly do we expect?

First, we expect to regain some of our power. Life under patriarchy is hard for women and we do the best we can, okay, but performing femininity is physically painful and emotionally debilitating. Sometimes we need to blow off a little steam. So we find a man who seems like an easy mark, we flirt a little or touch him a lot and we saunter off to tell our friends all about it.

Being angry all the time is exhausting. It’s lifesaving to have an outlet. Even if we don’t do ourselves or men any favors by taking our anger at society out on men who by definition are pretty well innocent in the matter.

We also want other women to appreciate our unique skillset. We want men to be afraid of how cruel we can be and the depths we can sink to. We want some appreciation for the emotional caretaking skillset we’ve developed because this society tells us we must. The flip side, the dark side, of that same skillset is this.
"

and

Careers & Education
Mills: Stopping Ripping Your Men to Shreds
Aug. 25, 2014
I cannot stand to see a woman publicly berate, humiliate, degrade, insult, and dominate her man.
Cynthia Mills
https://www.firehouse.com/careers-educa ... ur-husband

"
So I ask you ladies, if you tend to see yourself more on the fighting side of what I’ve written about here, make a change. If you have a disagreement or an issue with your spouse, take it home with you. Don’t stand in public and humiliate yourselves, each other, and possibly your children by making a huge scene. I would even ask that you don’t make that scene at home either. How difficult is it to treat each other with an ounce of respect? Even in the privacy of my own imagination, I couldn’t fathom slinging these public outburst phrases and words at my husband. This kind of behavior is a weapon.

I know many women are proud of their finely honed skills and weapons, but why? When did it become a badge of honor to be able to yell the loudest or launch the most shameful insult at your husband? When did it become the popular thing to use your words like a shiv for marital death?

I think this whole trend is incredibly disturbing. It saddens me to know it happens. It angers me when I see it. It is demasculinating the men of our society. Quite honestly, it disappoints me to see them cower and allow themselves to be bullied and take it like whipped puppies. I definitely don’t want them to lash out and fight back, because as I’ve already stated, this would be considered abuse if the men were to treat the women this way. Well I consider it abuse for the women to treat the men this way too. And just as I would expect a woman to walk away from an abusive man, I think more men should stand up against this treatment and walk away from abusive women. If more men did this, maybe it would change the tide of popularity. Maybe it would all of a sudden be less popular for women to publicly berate their men. Maybe more lonely women would lead to a more balanced sense of mutual respect between the genders.
"

Yes but in western culture in 2022 this is just young women exercising their power. They have the power to humiliate and degrade (pretending to flirt) and their is little or no accountability. Just look at social media, young girls dress and act provocatively for likes, in public they dress provocatively for attention. When a man responds to them acting flirtatious or because they are dressed like hookers then they feel entitled to humiliate the man for daring to misinterpret their civil right to dress/act how they want (unless of course the man is good looking/rich).

These mixed signals are likely confusing young men, But, at the end of the day women have the right to act or dress in a particular way and men must treat them with respect which includes not hitting on them or talking to them.

This is why I have been advocating for years on this forum for young men who are frustrated by women's behaviour to try and join social groups to at least make friends first to avoid the mine field of uncertainty and ambiguity set up by the current dating environment where its women who make all the decisions (and perhaps rightly so).

So I think many of the incels are unable to have the patience or fortitude to handle this type of dating environment and feel entitled to think they deserve more attention without making more of an effort. For some, this makes them very very angry.

It could sound presumptuous that I might say 'Oh, she might not know why she's doing it but I do!' but, I think it's only inscrutable to her and women of her sort because she genuinely doesn't want to see it (and I notice that Christianity and a lot of white-washing religions that tell us we're something other than animals cause our animalism as a culture to fly under the radar and we allow ourselves to be exquisitely cruel to other people for reasons we don't understand and just shrug it off, tell ourselves that if it's not part of the moral story we tell ourselves about ourselves - it's just one of those weird things, don't look at it).

So yes, I'm saying this as a male but the logic seems clear enough. A lot of young girls are drawn to horses because a lot of life, really a lot of their future for much of human history and especially from the dawn of the agricultural revolution up till maybe.... the late 1960's?.... revolved around them being able to manipulate and control the world through words, through social acts, through magnetism, through working with whatever they could and to a large degree attempting to gain their own freedom or even glory through being able to control animals much larger than themselves which could otherwise physically thrown them wall to wall if sheer physical power was the front-and-center parameter of the conversation.

I remember watching 1930's / 1940's black and white movies where... quite honestly the female characters scared the heck out of me, it was like watching an adept puppetmaster go to work on the rest of the other actors where there was perpetual slight of hand going on and where nothing they were displaying was authentic but all of it lead to her desired outcomes. I can't say that any of it's good or bad when it's what they had to do at certain points to stay alive and have whatever autonomy they could keep, when it comes to survival there are no rules. To that degree though that sort of social Merlinism, slight of hand, really control techniques of the sort that Giordano Bruno could only speculate about, really became a core element of the female mystique. Whether that enriches the world as a benevolently applied competence or turns into a Masterclass in narcissistic abuse or psychopathy really depends on the individual and how they choose to apply that competence.

On that last point I still remember when I was in my 20's and working in the restaurant industry near an expensive liberal arts college, a lot of attractive girls came there to waitress their way through school, some of them clearly had their sharp edges and when I saw that they effectively had a razor blade under their tongue I knew there was high likely hood that either one or the other thing was true: a) that she was f---ing awesome and we'd be eating our virtual Snickers bars when she did chew someone out because it would be right on point and it would be someone who really deserved it or b) she'd make the make the place difficult as she calculated her way through (and I saw both a and b scenarios play out with different people). Reiterating - it's how it's applied that matters.


Animals sharpen their claws on other animals. We're animals. The girl I remember saying that her and her other sisters used to bully her youngest sister so badly for opening her mouth at the breakfast table and made her shy and introverted had to follow that story up by clarifying that she had no idea why she did it. Clearly her genes knew what they were doing, her subconscious mind knew what it was it was doing, her conscious self didn't seem to want to know because it clashed with the story she told herself about what type of person she was so she carved out a space for it, called it a mystery, and just rolled with it.

So yeah, these guys who get used for target practice - I really have to blame the kinds of adults who'd tell them, unconditionally, that human beings are all - by nature and instinctively - good little Greek philosophers, infinitely curious, infinitely interested in learning truth to the best of their ability, and anyone who doesn't fit that description is just down on themselves and needs a hug (to tell kids that IMHO you have to be doped up, glassy-eyed, and getting ready to go join Marshall Applewhite on a rooftop with some Jonestown Koolaid). A certain number of guys, like myself when I was younger, resonate with the idea because it tells them that their natural Platonist orientation to the world, to truth, to knowledge, etc. is other people's natural preset as well. This assumption that they can rely on other people to be what they are is a savage, ripping mistake. It makes them cannon fodder for bullies and, if they really have this sort of new age bug buried deep enough in their code from enough sources, they can keep making this mistake and lining themselves up for abuse for years - even acclimating themselves to the abuse because there's just some awful black magic shroud of misunderstanding that life has cloaked around them, if the world could only just 'see the real them' then everything would be wonderful. They can't imagine that people can see them clearly and would spit in their face or stab them in the legs by whatever legal means they could. Nerds generally don't understand Machiavellian types easily, Machiavellian types don't understand nerds but they know immediately what to do with them whereas it doesn't go the other way around.


So yeah, I think a lot of these guys have been force-fed wishful thinking by adults, they get battered and abused by....well...reality. Life has these cycles where, not giving an exact account on which part of the sine wave you start your life on things are good, then they get worse, then they get better, then they get worse. Guys in their late teens have often only seen one rotation of that cycle and think it's permanent but those who grow out of it and beyond it get to see that wind through their lives. The trouble with having such a short data stack as someone being in their teens is they're more prone to get eaten by tragic archetypes because it's easy to take one's social identity as permanent. I'd say it's only semi-permanent in that yes, people will care for the rest of your life whether you're the type of guy who would have been popular in high school but it might be a selection for traits more than a perpetual history-sniffing, and there will be plenty of times where if you do the right things in life to be successful regardless then luck eventually meets preparation and things take uphill swing - they're unfortunately too young to see that happen, or as well too young to know that their identity and narratives may very well be shattered many times over through the course of their lives because.... guess what... life is incoherent, it's not written by a human author trying to write a bestseller, it's more like a bunch of random crap happening with only as much respect and/or tolerance for stories as chance and physics allow.

You can sumper-impose this in any western country and it will be true. The old days of chatting up a waitress or checkout girl are a distant memory.

This thread is on the slippery slope to becoming a bash women venting session.

Can you specify instances?

Thank you.