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zer0netgain
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05 Jul 2009, 9:06 am

My take....the media demonized her. She is not a "bad" person as far as being any worse than the average American. Unlike Hillary Clinton who is a narcissistic power-hungry feminist who cares for nothing but her own legacy, Palin looks like a saint.

However, perhaps America feels threatened by any woman getting into a position of authority. More likely, Palin had the looks and personality that Hillary Clinton never had, and that made her a target for ridicule by the Democratic Party.

Palin just resigned her office. Some speculate that she might run for President. My mom commented that not finishing her term of office would be a liability to her. I replied with the fact that President Obama didn't even finish 1/2 of his FIRST term as a senator before beginning his presidential campaign. At least other senators who became president got their FIRST term done before aspiring to a higher office (and all that after Obama said he was not looking to run for president).



techstepgenr8tion
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05 Jul 2009, 9:26 am

zer0netgain wrote:
However, perhaps America feels threatened by any woman getting into a position of authority. More likely, Palin had the looks and personality that Hillary Clinton never had, and that made her a target for ridicule by the Democratic Party.


I think there's also a big point to be made that feminism is something that the media and pop culture pushes as being something purely of liberalism, that feminism is the seal of female authenticity, that a conservative woman in a way isn't fully an authentic woman (she's like a gender version of an 'Uncle Tom'), and gender/race/etc. have been used or pushed and persuaded to be lockstep voting blocks for years (though yes, gender still has a lot of diversity of political opinion regardless of what pop culture promotes). Thus to have a strong conservative female role model that actually has enough style or charisma to get women who lets say are on the bandwagon and didn't know who to look up to as a female conservative - all of a sudden would have and maybe have had that for a brief moment with Palin.

Like a lot of people I can't say myself that I'd vote for her in presidential capacity (I'd at least vote for someone else in the primary), though I agree with Dox that she both looked a lot better on paper and that yes, if she ran for a House or Senate seat I'd probably support it; at least now I figure that she's gone through a lot more vetting since then and will be having a lot more in the coming years.



techstepgenr8tion
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05 Jul 2009, 9:43 am

gina-ghettoprincess wrote:
She is evil personified.

She would have abortion outlawed. She is homophobic. She supports the teaching of creationism in public schools.

And I vaguely remember hearing something about her believing Africa to be a country...do you want someone that thick to be in a position of authority?


I hate to grab this as I mean no disrespect, I just want to reflect on the words here (and yes, I know your young, you live in the UK). I felt compelled regardless though because a lot of popular sentiment is being expressed here and Gina, I'd have to imagine that a lot of if not most of the people you know have that view and relate it back and forth.

The only thing that stands out for clarification - it seems like based on certain religious values, nothing even that outlandish compared to a lot of cultures around the world (maybe a little passe for our western tastes) that she probably gets ten times the hatemail that Akhmedinejad or Chavez get; or at least from Europeans and Americans. The later are guys who even have such extreme beliefs that show no qualms in throwing it down hard on society and inflicting their views whereas she shows enough signs that even with lets say fundamentalist views that she would still ultimately and ethnically want to respect the judicial system, the legislative system, and would - whether or not she liked it - put her views aside if they were against the flow of the majority for the sake of the greater good (as opposed to trying to force her views which, even a good thing in ones own eyes they should realize quickly becomes a bad thing and anti-endorsement of what they stand for IF they shove it down people's throats).

The overall thoughts of the left (ie. the people that generate this dialog and pass it as the staple of normalcy or what's to be considered really the only intellectually sound standpoint) seem like they're really less about the greater good and more about bending and folding reality on people where they lose touch and yes - end up trying to vote people in when they get older who are crazy enough to endorse ideas of the like that our nature is fully programmable, that capitalist currents are just greed and greed is even even if it promotes a doctor seeking a Nobel prize to cure cancer or something of the like, people who believe that gender is purely a societal construct, people who I think if they're listened to enough will drag us back into a 15th century type of idiocy, under a different flag than the Catholic church but an equally potent idiocy none the less. While I'm not trying to slap people around on beliefs I think certain forms of denialism - of firm science even - show some very unfortunate frailties in the human mind, how it works, how so many generations think that their way of doing things or thinking is vastly superior to those of the preceding, enough to where they repeat history and make all the same mistakes. In aggregate I understand, it can't be controlled, its just the diversity of 6.5 billion that is 'us', which is one of those areas where I then have to wonder about the hand of God in any major trend as some kind of lesson to be learned.

Sorry, didn't mean to bloviate but I think the Palin situation among some others really draws certain psychological and emotional elements of this into clear contrast.



z0rp
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05 Jul 2009, 10:03 am

She's exactly what you don't look for in someone who is running for president. And even if she were to remain vice president, someone that foolish shouldn't have that much power.


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05 Jul 2009, 11:17 am

Dox47 wrote:
MDD123 wrote:
Guns are just a touchy subject, no one can predict the next time someone will have a bad day and use a gun for an outlet. All I have to say is that if the police were able to know ahead themselves, I'd be in in favor of stricter gun control.


Touchy subject or not, I don't think someone can reasonably expect to advocate for the mass murder of their political opponents (using guns no less!), then expect to have any credibility whatsoever concerning this, or for that matter any other subject. I'll just stand back and enjoy the sure to ensue display of auto-podiatary marksmanship... :lol:


True, it's a little hard to take someone seriously when they're a hippocrite. I mean even I'm something of a paradox, I don't think much of guns personally, but if I find civilization collapsing and mass chaos spreading, I will use max mad as my guide and find the nearest assualt rifle and look out for number 1 (okay, I don't think he ever used an assault rifle, but then again, nobody ever called him mad max). Of course, I wouldn't have my own assault rifle so I might be SOL if that's the case, I'm also an excellent hider.



monty
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05 Jul 2009, 11:56 am

Dox47 wrote:
monty wrote:
MattShizzle wrote:
Libertards really don't get it. Western Europe seems to do great with low crime rate/education while having great public education and gun control.


Are you sure that you get it? The word "liberal' is pejorative for liberal - and US liberals do tend to point out that Europe, Japan and Canada do quite well with education, health care and crime.


Notice he said libertards, he thinks he's being clever by creating a contraction of the words libertarian (which he obviously suspects I am) and ret*d.


Oh - is that what he was trying to say? It's not a terribly effective neologism, as changing it from liberal to libertard does nothing whatsoever to distinguish between LIBERtarians and LIBERals... they both have liber in the names.



monty
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05 Jul 2009, 12:03 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
However, perhaps America feels threatened by any woman getting into a position of authority. More likely, Palin had the looks and personality that Hillary Clinton never had, and that made her a target for ridicule by the Democratic Party.


Certainly, there are some people that didn't want a women, and they may have voted for someone else. But this was the first election in US history to force an either-or choice between women and minorities. And I think that in the end, it wasn't so much race or gender that decided the election.

Hillary Clinton got a lot of insults from the right - as did her husband. I think the majority of the bile was not so much about her being a women ... she was seen as liberal etc.



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05 Jul 2009, 12:05 pm

The sort of person who would refuse to vote for someone simply because they are a woman or a minority would be almost universally conservative. Libertard has been used for a while towards libertarians - they share the first 8 letters.



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05 Jul 2009, 4:41 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
My take....the media demonized her. She is not a "bad" person as far as being any worse than the average American. Unlike Hillary Clinton who is a narcissistic power-hungry feminist who cares for nothing but her own legacy, Palin looks like a saint.

However, perhaps America feels threatened by any woman getting into a position of authority. More likely, Palin had the looks and personality that Hillary Clinton never had, and that made her a target for ridicule by the Democratic Party.

Palin just resigned her office. Some speculate that she might run for President. My mom commented that not finishing her term of office would be a liability to her. I replied with the fact that President Obama didn't even finish 1/2 of his FIRST term as a senator before beginning his presidential campaign. At least other senators who became president got their FIRST term done before aspiring to a higher office (and all that after Obama said he was not looking to run for president).


I agree that the media played a huge role in portraying Sarah Palin as an over-religious conservative bimbo. That's not to say she isn't in a way, but it was waaaaay overexaggerated. Just look at the way that the media was on her for the smallest flaws (especially the whole Briston pregnancy deal). You need to actually sit down and listen to these interviews that Sarah Palin has. I mean the more private interviews, not the debates. She actually says some thoughtful intellectual stuff as opposed to what's portrayed later in the 11:00 news. Her views on abortion are not as harsh as people are making out to be in one interview I watched regarding this issue. I do agree however that her religious views cause he to set the bar too high for herself than she is truly capable of. The role of Vice President involves a lot of work with diplomatic relations something she lacks experience in. However, I do think she would be more fit for being a senator.

But she is far from being a bible-thumping maniac. The real Bible-thumping maniacs tell everyone they're evil and are going to hell for this and that...like the Westboro Baptist Church. From what I've seen, Palin is far from being anywhere like Fred Phelps thank god.

I don't think her being a woman affected her political chances. Had she been a democrat and Obama's vice presidental candidate the opposite would've happen where Palin would be 1000x more idolized and respected regardless of how little she knows by the liberal media.

Also, she's no more of a homophobe than Obama is. Had Obama been a supporter of gay marriage I could see Palin being hated 10000x more than she already is.



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05 Jul 2009, 4:52 pm

I never really cared for her.

I couldn't say she's worse than any other right winged fundementalist. In fact, I can't help but wonder if people hate her not just based on her political issues but for the fact that she's a woman. Not saying that's the only reason why people hate her but I tend to notice men and women both really bash on females in political campaigns. Hell....I don't see Hilary Clinton being worse than other democrats I've disapproved of.....even though I'm a democrat. Yes you don't here as much criticism on their part.

Anyway....I doubt femenism is really an issue these days. I think most men have always felt a general threat toward women being in power....even before the femenist movements. I do think she's come off as a ditz but what guy hasn't?

There's a lot of far right wing and far left wing people I'm strongly opposed to....I've just learn not to let them get to me unless the american votes for these people have been tampered with.......


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monty
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06 Jul 2009, 2:51 pm

raisedbyignorance wrote:
But she is far from being a bible-thumping maniac. The real Bible-thumping maniacs tell everyone they're evil and are going to hell for this and that...like the Westboro Baptist Church. From what I've seen, Palin is far from being anywhere like Fred Phelps thank god.


The fact that she is not openly aggressive about her opinions does not mean much - in fact, by all indications, she is a stealth theocrat. This tactic has been widely employed since school prayer and teaching creationism in public schools were ruled unconstitutional ... that whole movement tried to cloak itself in non-religious terminology, ie, intelligent design. But they were caught talking about this stealth campaign (and one textbook literally did a cut-and-paste to replace the old terms with the new).

Does she literally believe that people are commonly demon possessed, and that her church leaders are good at exorcisms? No one has put that question to her, and she would probably dodge it, but she chose to go to that church for decades.

Does Sarah believe in the 7 day model of creation, which happened 7000 years ago? She plays that question coyly. But she has said she favors that classes 'consider alternatives.' Does she want biology classes to entertain Hindu notions of the origin of the universe? What about teaching about the great turtle that climbed up a hole in the sky, and the world forming on his back? Probably not. To her, 'alternatives' means science and her version of religion should be taught equally.



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06 Jul 2009, 2:51 pm

she is ignorant of proud of being ignorant! After the seeing the last president who was glad to be stupid, I am afraid of what she would do!


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monty
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06 Jul 2009, 4:49 pm

Ok, somebody convince me this isn't unusual behavior:

Palin e-mailed a letter to family members and close friends on the same day she gave birth, writing it as if it came from God and signing it: "Trig's Creator, Your Heavenly Father."

http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=27947


Clearly, she is a prophet of God! This explains her recent statements about giving up the governorship for an unspecified 'higher calling.' And I know I sure would be upset about people thinking that Obama is 'the one' when it was really me!



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06 Jul 2009, 5:33 pm

monty wrote:
Ok, somebody convince me this isn't unusual behavior:

Palin e-mailed a letter to family members and close friends on the same day she gave birth, writing it as if it came from God and signing it: "Trig's Creator, Your Heavenly Father."

http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=27947


Clearly, she is a prophet of God! This explains her recent statements about giving up the governorship for an unspecified 'higher calling.' And I know I sure would be upset about people thinking that Obama is 'the one' when it was really me!


She seems to lack basic social skills in favor of her religion, one things for sure, if I ever got the time of day from her I'd have to be really careful about what I said about god.



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06 Jul 2009, 6:31 pm

as i wrote this, i noticed there was an ad at the bottom of the last answer that asked "Like Palin?" "Vote here now" <.< (I don't mean it was from MDD123, mind you o.O )

Just a funny coincidence <.< .



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06 Jul 2009, 8:43 pm

Well, that blows my cover! Just remember not to really vote for her, she'll be too good for me if she makes it to president.