Am I a racist?

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Do you fit into your world?
Does anybody with an ASD fit?
I don't get how you can say how someone else is jealous that you fit into your world..

Actually, I did not, and further, I had not even thought as much in the privacy of my own head…..until I read this post I am replying to now. Frankly, you’ve now made it very difficult to avoid such a conclusion.


I referred to being raised by white people, and you have characterized that as an advantage. I referred to being broadly indistinguishable behaviorally from other people raised in similar circumstances, and from this you construe some nonsense about some people being “valid” or some such hocky. This is all your own work. If on hearing “raised by white folk” you think advantaged, then maybe you are a racist. If on hearing “not broadly distinguishable in behavior from some group comprised of white people of some description”, and from this you construe “therefore are valid people”, then it might very well be true that you are racist. It’s actually rather difficult to understand how else you arrived at such characterizations.

People who are not racist usually do not interpret “raised by white people” as asserting an advantage, nor do non racist people usually interpret behavioral similarity to white children as being therefore valid (people). If you are not racist, these are very odd interpretations and assumptions on your part….to say the least.

Actually it is the standard means of excluding the possibility of biological rather than social influences in determining causal pathways to behavior. If the reason that Aboriginal Australians have poor outcomes in modern Australia, disproportionately to other ethnic groups, were anything to do with how they are made rather than socialization and environmental influences, then we would expect to see the same poor outcomes regardless of things such as the environment in which they were socialized and by which they are influenced. That outcomes differ in accordance with social and environmental factors demonstrates conclusively that biological/”racial” explanations simply cannot be made to fit.


None of which is relevant to notions of possession. It does not matter if my neighbour has much more than they need and would not go without were I to steal some of their stuff. It’s their stuff and stealing it is morally wrong and it would not be unreasonable for my neighbours to be quite angry with me if I stole their possessions.


Evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue. You were referring to moral issues claiming they have enough fertile land to wander in, now you are moving the goal posts to “well evolution gave them the short end of the stick but I did not design evolution”. None of this indicates a sense of fairness, but rather the kind of rationalization processes people indulge in when they have a judgmental opinion and are determined they can make the facts fit.


Which is neither here nor there racially. The biological propensities of humans are such that many of the “trappings’ of industralised modernity are highly attractive to humans, which is quite different from saying these things are necessarily healthy for humans, or easy to extricate oneself from a dependence on.


Well there you would be wrong. Some do not want to go walk about, some do. Just like people of other ethnicities, Aboriginal Australians are not a hive mind entity, and manifest extensive individual variation.

Are you able to consider this issue without an “us or them must be blamed" mentality?
But if you must blame someone, these people did not come to your ancestor’s home and make this mess did they? Your ancestors came to their land, treated these peoples’ ancestors just like animals, evicted them from lands as and when they chose, and enforced their own world order on these people and their ancestors. If you want to play the blame game, it’s clearly not the Aboriginal Australians who instigated this mess is it?


Evolution is not to blame for this mess. The Aboriginal Australians are not to blame for this mess. I start to wonder if this is not some “white anti guilt” thing whereby you lack the capacity to accept the facts about this situation without having to point a finger of blame which you do not want pointed at you. Hence this blame the victims mentality. Could it not be possible that the problems and issues being discussed are not the fault of Aboriginal Australians and also not your fault personally?

It is nothing like a petrie dish and frankly your understanding of evolution is less than stellar. What has the extent to which a mold is primitive got to do with anything? Primitive and less fit are not the same thing.
But again, you return to its not your fault, as though this is somehow relevant. It seems you will not be fair and balanced because in your mind if they are not to blame for poor outcomes then you are and you do not want to be. It seems to me that a fair and balanced approach to these particular people is not even a consideration to you; rather your priority is to “prove” that you personally are not to blame, which all seems very silly and non sequitor to me.
Er, you are not too clued up on Australian ecology either then? If you actually have a plan that could remove even so much as the introduced pests, you could be a very rich, famous and celebrated person. Heck if you could just knock off the rabbits or the cane toads, you’ll be a true blue fair dinkum Aussie hero. Good luck with that.

You have failed to elaborate how you imagine these people will be magically endowed with the necessary knowledge and skills (as possessed by their ancestors) by this departure.

Looks to me like you do not just state what you see, but rather you state whatever will reconcile their situation with a need to blame someone who is not you. Hardly a foundation for a fair, factual or reasonable consideration of the complex issues involved. Playing the blame game is rarely conducive to fair appraisal.



Prejudiced for or against what? And what about your manner precisely is supposed to have caused this prejudice? Might you have a tendency to interpret challenges to your point of view as being challenges to your person? They are not the same thing at all.

Charming.

I suspect at least some Aboriginal Australians feel the same way about their ancestor’s stuff….say for instance Australia itself.

I do not see this fairness in your discussion of these people and issues concerning them. You seem more concerned with repeatedly claiming you are not to blame (even though I see no hint that anyone in this thread was suggesting you were personally to blame for anything except perhaps your own opinions), than with being fair or balanced.

Aha, back to you not being personally to blame. Well obviously that proves how primitively angry these people are, not to mention drunk and fat on McDonalds, and probably uncouth too. Nothing racist about that b9?

I can relate to finding people to be quite similar sometimes who come from the same country or culture. I never noticed the OPs claims though.. I have met latin american girls and I have noticed them to be either devout catholic.. perhaps a biased sample. My brother is dating a girl from Puerto Rico and she is quiet, a neatness-fanatic, and a scientist.

You can thank your honky white liberal government for the food stamps and other welfare give away programs. They are and were a political ploy to buy votes. Don't blame the victim; blame the victimizer. The entire Liberal Modality is a political ploy. That is what happens when you have Democracy. Isn't Democracy wonderful? Two cheers for Democracy!

As to the rest you are in a state of cultural dissonance with your neighbors. If you don't like the neighborhood, then move.

ruveyn

Righto, ruveyn. If they can't find a job, let'em starve to death. Better yet, atom bomb them.

"racist" is such a strong word with such negative connotations. It shouldn't be so, because it's undeniable that different cultures have different values. You would be a racist, but not a bad person. All your arguements are perfectly valid & well founded.

Nukes cost millions of dollars. Starvation is free. If the Miserable of the Earth arise in rebellion, use machine guns. it is cheaper. Domestic Tranquility is no more than a pull on the trigger away.

Give a hungry man a fish, you have fed him for today.
Let him starve to death and you can forget about him forever.

ruveyn

But a lot of hungry people die and rot and cause plagues that infect rats and all the upright smug citizens will soon get sick and die. Better to chop them up and grind them to hamburger for the wealthier people to enjoy.

Life is a b***h. O.K. Let us fund soup kitchens and bread lines for the Miserable of the Earth. Jonathan Swift proposed even a better solution. See -A Modest Proposal-.

ruveyn

I am well aware of his "modest proposal" but it is quite revealing that you accept that as a viable solution.

I never said it was viable. I implied that it is more interesting than anything proposed by the liberals. I prefer simplicity, transparency, and directness. And a total lack of guilt. That is important. Liberals whine and apologize too much. Except for Michael Moore. He just farts in public. And Botox Babe, Nancy Pelosi. She is direct and despicable.

ruveyn

It's a gross error to confuse simplicity with simple mindedness smeared with vicious contempt.

Contempt is inherently vicious. Which is why contempt and schandenfreude are hobbies of mine.

Games I love to play: contempt, contumely, low regard, scorn, insult, ill wishing and joy in the failure and destruction of my enemies.

If I cannot fully love those whom I should love, I will despise those whom I should despise. The ability to love is a gift which fortunately I did not receive. Thus I am not burdened with guilt.

You are older than I am and you should know by this time, good deeds often go unrequited; pity paralyzes and compassion rots resolve. The correct state for the human animal is Lean and Mean. We are primates with the dentation of meat eaters. We have the stereoscopic vision of predators and we have well developed feet wherewith to kick a**.

ruveyn

Perhaps you have the few years left that I have utilized to be aware that good deeds are sufficient unto themselves and should not be measured by any standards but personal satisfaction. I have had some terrible things happen to myself and my family and yet my experiences have added to my understanding as to why things happen and let me accept and live with them and do not distill into the vile bitter swamp in which you seem to struggle to exist.

well you said in your first post to me
i thought that means roughly the same thing as "racist".


i forgot to add quotes to the word "advantage". i was assuming that you ascribed the value of "advantage" to the "black" children who were raised in a "white" way in your sentence, and i was not seriously using that word as my own assertion.
i should remember to put quotes around every thing that i think of that is not representative my own thoughts.


i also should have put "valid" in quotes. i am sloppy because i do not expect scrutiny of my punctuation in normal life. i was satirizing your comment to me and i was not purporting my own attitude.
you ran off with a bone that has no meat on it. you are shouting at the wind because i am not where your thoughts are aimed.




i am sorry i do not know where you come from but there are very few examples of successful aborigines in our country, and it is not because of neglect. they are treated equally and even better than non indigenous people.

i have never seen any exclusion or racist attitudes toward them. they seem to think white people look down on them, and white people can not convince them that they do not look down on them. it does not matter how one tries, they still think white people are "looking down their nose" at them and they are hostile.

they are given every opportunity to succeed in our world and they choose to not bother.

there are some eminent aborigines but they are not full blood.
(i think i am digging my grave deeper somehow)

i think "full blooded" aborigines are not designed for a "fixed address".

many years ago when i was a kid, the NSW government resaponded to a request by aborigines around Taree (google it if your interested) for housing and autonomy.

my family owned a property near taree and i took an interest in the events.

the NSW government gave them a large slice of land and rebuilt a town called "Purfleet" with about 100 houses and they were given to aboriginal families.

they were nice modern houses with nice kitchens and clean new carpet and good yards.
they had a sports oval in the area built for them, and they had a local swimming pool built for them and they had a pub that they could go to at night.

we used to have to drive through "purfleet" to get to Taree. it was only about 2 months after the houses were completed and they all moved in, that we started getting rocks thrown at our car as we drove through the town toward taree.

i noticed after 6 months that all the clean new parchment colored brick houses were all dirty. especially at ground level. then i noticed their yards were just dirt and dog droppings.

after another few months, i noticed that their windows and doors were all gone and there was much trash in their dirty unfertile yards.
then a few months later, i noticed that the roofs were all gone and the houses were in a deplorable condition. they had graffiti "tags" all over them and they looked blackened inside.

i read that they did not appreciate being expected to "settle down", and they removed their roofs so they could light fires on the floor of their living rooms and not be suffocated by smoke. the fires they lit on the floor were from timbers that they ripped out of the walls and all the doors and everything wooden.

after they exhausted all the wooden fuel, they started to vandalize and trash their houses in some kind of protest.

as we drove past, i could see that they were sitting in their dirt yards where many skinny dogs sniffed the putrid ground for scraps, and their feces were the main carpeting of the yards that the people sat in.

i thought at the time that they were very pathetic, but now i realize that white people tried to impose their own idea of "happiness" on them and they are nomadic which is not able to be understood by most other cultures.

permanent houses for them are not necessary.

i am a bit not well at the moment so i am sorry if i am not making sense.




what did we steal? boomerangs? nulla nulla's? do they "possess" australia? just because they got here first does it mean they are entitled to it? is it "finders keepers"?

we did not steal "australia" from them. it was not even called "australia" in their language at the time. they can still walk and live anywhere in "australia" that they want to (as long as it is not on private property).
not all the grubs and lizards and other aboriginal resource necessities were in the sydney area (or other metropolitan areas) before we moved in.

there is so much of australia that is fertile and unclaimed that i am sure they could just retreat to there and carry on their ancestral destinies as they wish to do.
but there is no mcdonalds or grog shops there so maybe there may not be many "indigenous" "immigrants" (oxymoron) to the ancestral lands like in kakadu..


it is true that they are going to be overrun by better organized societies (evolution), and it is also true that they have 95% of australia still to run around in, so they are not in trouble yet(if only they knew it).





the american indians had very little tolerance for alcohol, and they called it "fire water".
they were easy to slaughter when they were given large quantities of "fire water".

australian aborigines are similarly affected to an extreme degree by alcohol.
they react differently from other racial phenotypes to alcohol.

also, their systems are not geared to such a high degree of protein in the diets that westerners eat. they none-the-less crave to eat high protein diets.

i do not know what the average life expectancy of an aborigine was in 1500 before we got here, so i can not tell if our culture is actually detrimental to them.




oh well i thought that the essence of the spirit of an aborigine is to be "connected with mother earth" and to go walking in bare feet all over it to feel it. they really feel that the earth is their god. i see the truth in that too. i was not talking in an holistic way about all aborigines.
just the demoralized "pure bloods" i guess.




no it is not their fault. my original post before you cornered me was about the fact that aborigines hate white people with such anger, and that is what i was reacting to, and i wondered whether i may be racist if i disagree with someone who calls my race trash.



no my statement was in an imaginary retaliation to an aborigine who says" my life is ruined and it's ALL YOUR FAULT and i hate you and want to hurt you". i say it is not my fault that they are how they are.

"primitive" and "less fit" are the same thing.
you may think of life forms that started long ago like "coelacanth's" and say that although they are "primitive" , they are definitely "fit" because they still exist today.
but they are not primitive. their characteristics are pertinent for survival in this modern era.
anything that is "primitive" and has a competitor that is not as primitive will succumb to usurpation.



"i am not to blame for any tribulation that an aborigine may experience". i only assert that sentiment to actual aborigines who want to bash me for not being an aborigine, or to "racist hunters" who are out on safari and identify anything that moves as quarry to shoot down.



yes i did not itemize every aspect of western influence that could be removed. the "rubble" was a generic term that was supposed to imply inclusion of all traces of our presence including pathogens like influenza and pollutants like heavy metals etc. also it would include every stalk of wheat and corn and all other grains and all other crops, and no seeds would remain either. all blueprints for all designs of every technology woul also be removed.

as i said..... "like it was in 1769". in 1769, there was not a trace of us, so it was sufficient for me to use it as a marker that depicts a time before any infiltration by external culture. whatever you can think of that is missing in my words that happened after 1770 is not relevant.




so do we stay?
do we go or stay? it is a "dilemma" (in the truest sense of the meaning of the word)

i have met some excellent aborigines on our farm at brewarrina. they are sober and extremely able to survive in environments that most people would perish in.

maybe we should fund some sort of "elder" concerts or something.

but i think that the ways of old are lost now. all the old aboriigines who say they know
what the real story is, relate such a drunken and unintelligible rant.
they just seem to make it up as they go along.




i am not interested in blame and i am not interested in reconciliation much.
i am innocent of anything that the angry aborigines want to bash me for. that is why i say it is not my "fault".
i am not saying that iin response to your words.



most people in real life see my absence of philosophical curiosity and awareness and presume i am dogmatic. that is why i think you may pre-judge my meaning to be ignorant and pompous.



you quoted that out of context so you can say anything you like i guess.
"charmed indeed"



what did i steal? as soon as i entered consciousness as a baby i was here.
i acted in a way that my neurons promoted, and i now have property.
they have so much more. they have 95% of australia to wander in.




no i was responding to the idea that aborigines want to hurt me because they "blame" me for stealing their country. that is why i stressed it was not my "fault".

but you did call me "ignorant" so i did think your sentiment was similar to an aboriginal one who thinks that i am a smug undeserved invader.





you hop like a disoriented frog from lilly pad to lilly pad in a smooth pond.

you asserted that i (we) stole their possessions earlier, and i just responded i did not steal their land.

i can not talk on your level so that is all i have to say.

It is not a struggle. Rather, it is a splash in the pond. Save your pity for someone who needs it. I am not the least bit unhappy at this juncture. I still have my health and my bad attitude intact. I am the sweet kindly Old Man to my children, grandchildren, nephews and nieces. And that is as far as it goes.



ruveyn