Israel: the arsenal of an undeclared nuclear power.

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Thanks for reminding me. The problem with Zionism (as how it's acted out by Israel today) is that too many good, honest people of Jewish descent get suckered into that madness and blindly support it because they think they're doing something good. I say stupid generalizations at times but I don't forget the real culprits. Apologies for the moronic slip.

It is very important that a clear distinction be made between Israelis and Jews in general. Israelis are a nation. Jews are not.

Throughout history Jews have been disdained, tortured, killed, and regularly deprived of the accepted properties and rights taken for granted by other citizens of various countries and a Jewish tradition of valuing understanding, knowledge and learning has matured them as a group and the venal snarling psychologies of nationalists did not take root until a morsel of land now known as Israel has poisoned this wonderful culture.

It proved, at end that, basically Jews are no different than any other humans.

Owning property is a disease that infects most of humanity and many animals even though it is an ephemeral right. Anyone who has collected and used things throughout his life becomes well aware that possession is a very temporary thing and life only lends, not gives property. Many wonderful and useful objects that have passed through my life are now mere memories and I can be nostalgic about them but in the end it re-enforces the obvious that life itself is merely lent and not given.

Unfortunately many individuals cannot accept the fugitive characteristics of being alive and, like ruveyn, snarl and snap at any attempt to indicate that life is rich both in getting and in giving. There is something in Christ’s original thoughts about this which is pretty much neglected by most Christians.

Admittedly, without some possessions, you cannot do a hell of a lot and the capitalistic system owes much of its success from the clever use of possessions. But the system of owning can become a frightful disease as Israel is proving.

The only thing that does not decrease by giving is knowledge and one of the most severe sicknesses of our current civilization is the turning of creativity and knowledge into private property. No doubt creators deserve some compensation but the present system is punishing and crippling the world.

Only by idiots and anti Semites. You got it right. No longer victim lambs to be brought to the slaughter. Nowadays, Jews fight back. The anti Semites take Jews on at their own peril. Let the world take heed! Don't f*ck with the Jews!

ruveyn

Just checking politics of the area, your statement is wrong.


And what's up with acting like as if the Israelis represent the global Jewish community? I mean sure, a lot of them are suckered into thinking it's a nice idea to support it because of the holocaust but I seriously doubt they're all that familiar with the full history of Israel and what Israel does.

Not to mention there are Jewish organizations like this that just out and out oppose the existence of Israel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neturei_Karta

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/


It's not an issue of anti-semitism. Such clumsy use of words is problematic to achieving anything positive and results in the use of absolutes. I apologized for mine and admitted it was moronic. What about you?

Some songs that this old hag would enjoy:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb1CYVyknDE&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlJTA2gWCZQ[/youtube]


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh-wIm7mn1I[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVKHUt3WAR0[/youtube]

Another lovely parody song, ..yea baby! .... let's dance

It is a nice idea to support Israel. Jews have been the victims for far too long, and the holocaust was the last straw. Of course, defending themselves involves some risk of being seen as too aggressive, but their actions are no more abhorrent than any other nation that defends it's sovereignty. There is a media war going on, and the Arabs who now regret their actions of 50 years ago tend to lie their ass off about Israel. They were ordered to leave Israel by their own fellow Arabs, and the ones that stayed are now citizens of Israel (1.3 million). If you live your whole life with f*****g Arabs trying to kill you, that is bound to generate some understandable hatred. Palestinian Arabs need to get their s**t together otherwise they will continue to be marginalized. They are victims of their own suicide cult- fundamentalist Islam, which is a much bigger factor than losing a little real estate.

When Israelis who have been with Israel since its inception (see http://www.counterpunch.org/kolko08252009.html) are totally repelled and disgusted by Israeli policies towards the Palestinians you can be sure something rotten is going on.

You have a pretty weird definition of 'good'.

He's a jingoist, what do you expect?

@ AspE - I think the Palestinians are a little more than marginalised.

Nationalism is just a political expression of ethnocentrism, and ethnocentrism is the perfectly natural loyalty people feel towards their own kind. It is obvious then that when different ethnic groups come into contact, there will be conflict as the groups compete for resources. History shows that this is indeed the case.

The Jews have been living as a diaspora people among Europeans for hundreds of years, and so one would expect conflicts of interest to arise in such a situation. Yet in this instance we’re not supposed to think in such terms; we’re supposed to think instead solely in terms of one side (Europeans) irrationally and wickedly persecuting the blameless other (Jews). It’s not true. Similarly untrue is this idea that explicit Jewish ethnocentrism (as expressed by political Zionism) is an entirely modern phenomenon; Judaism (the religion) is itself an expression of Jewish ethnocentrism, since it serves to maintain the cohesion of the Jews as a kinship group (notwithstanding the fact that there are different subgroups of Jews – the Ashkenazis and the Sephardis, for example, are still genetically closer to each other than to the host populations they’ve been living among).

You’re clearly quite attached to this “Israel as a tool of Western imperialism” thesis. It’s a contrarian thesis and yet politically correct at the same time. Did you learn it from Noam Chomsky?

My relatives have also been there since it's inception. Sure there are problems, constant warfare with the Palestinians is bound to have some effect. What country doesn't have problems? I also object to some Israeli policies, such as allowing settlements on disputed land, but I am equally disgusted by Palestinian actions going back to the 1920's, fueled by the same nationalistic sentiments and religious bigotry.

It's as much a tool of western imperialism as our control over the Egyptian president.

There is no doubt that Arabs have made inexcusable moves in their fury at being kicked out of their land and having to live as second class citizens in Israel but Jews have had a centuries old reputation of being intelligent and compassionate. To say that criminal actions justify responsible authorities acting like criminals is not a particularly intelligent nor compassionate retort.