Gun possession

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01 Oct 2009, 7:21 pm

John_Browning wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

Anywhere were they guns specifically hand guns gun crime goes up. Look at DC and Chicago.

Handguns are banned in Chicago and were in DC up until a year ago.

Yup, that's what I was referring too. Maybe for not too much longer in Chicago if the Supreme Court strikes down their ban.

greenblue
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03 Oct 2009, 8:08 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

I am not sure about the methodology being used by this study. It is basically reasoning that people who own guns are more likely to be shot, ergo guns are a problem. The issue is that a causal mechanism seems necessary for this research to be valid, otherwise nothing is shown about guns necessarily. After all, just owning something like a gun won't magically attract bullets, and there are likely a lot of personality issues that are going to correlate with gun ownership.

well, I interpret the article of claimed study to be also about the use of guns for self-protection rather than just owning them, I doubt the study references to ownership only without actually taking into account owners putting in action the reason why they own guns in the first place, although this is correlated to the concept of gun ownership. And the issue of a gun attracting other people (and not exactly the friendly kind) rather than just attracting bullets, in that regard, I think the issue would be about few things such as training, the circumstances, which situation looks in favor to the person to use it and which not I presume, etc. But yeah, the accuracy of the study is quite uncertain, statistical cases may seem to indicate something?

I have an anecdotal account about someone trying to defend himself when being mugged, just to end up death himself. Although that is a single case out of other few that I particularly know of, which can't make a statistical case though.

Quote:

This isn't to say anything wrong with the study necessarily, just I am not sure what is really proven.

That most people are idiots? :p

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ruveyn
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04 Oct 2009, 3:36 am

Jacoby wrote:

John_Browning wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

Anywhere were they guns specifically hand guns gun crime goes up. Look at DC and Chicago.

Handguns are banned in Chicago and were in DC up until a year ago.

Yup, that's what I was referring too. Maybe for not too much longer in Chicago if the Supreme Court strikes down their ban.

The ban will be struck down on the basis of the 2nd and 10th amendments. It is right in the Constitution. The right to keep and bear arms (i.e. firearms) shall not be infringed.

If there were an attempt to repeal the 2nd amendment it would not only fail, it would lead to the utter anihilation (politically) of those who tried to repeal it. The only way to restrict firearms ownership is by somewhat stealthy or misleading means.

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04 Oct 2009, 9:35 am

greenblue wrote:

Well, I don't see much evidence that this study shows that. It seems to just be a correlation between owning a weapon and getting shot. Also, I can't really say how the evidence was collected as one would think that if one had dealt with the other data, one would have a causal mechanism.

Quote:

That most people are idiots? :p

We need statistics to show that?

NEWSFLASH: Water is wet!

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04 Oct 2009, 8:06 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Quote:

That most people are idiots? :p

We need statistics to show that?

Apparantely, many people need statistics for that.

Quote:

NEWSFLASH: Water is wet!

Water is wet
therefore, people are idiots?

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southwestforests
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04 Oct 2009, 9:44 pm

Here's some interesting numbers:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm

Quote:

Injury

* From 1993 through 1997, less than 1% of serious nonfatal violent victimizations resulted in gunshot wounds.
* The number of gunshot wounds from assaults treated in hospital emergency departments fell from 64,100 in 1993 to 39,400 in 1997, a 39% decline.

Offenders

*

According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -
o a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
o a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
o family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%

* During the offense that brought them to prison, 15% of State inmates and 13% of Federal inmates carried a handgun, and about 2%, a military-style semiautomatic gun.
* On average, State inmates possessing a firearm received sentences of 18 years, while those without a weapon had an average sentence of 12 years.
* Among prisoners carrying a firearm during their crime, 40% of State inmates and 56% of Federal inmates received a sentence enhancement because of the firearm.

up arrow To the top

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Dox47
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05 Oct 2009, 12:21 am

Well, it seems this "study" went over like a lead balloon... (and not the cool Mythbusters one either) I'm grateful that the man in the White House and his friends in congress seem to have realized that gun control is a complete nonstarter and would instantly bring about their political demise in the current political climate, and with any luck we'll get incorporation of the 2nd Amendment out of the Supremes soon enough, and then it will be open season on gun control. I'm a bit disappointed that we missed out on universal carry reciprocity by a mere two votes, but that should come in time, it makes too much sense not to come to the floor again, and I want to see the look on Dianne Feinstein's face when it passes. :lol:

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05 Oct 2009, 1:34 am

My father has always owned a number of guns, so I don't believe in takeing peoples' guns. I believe in human control though. There aren't enough cops these days, I swear. My mother won't allow me to get a liscence, and really I do as she wishes, being under her roof like I am. She must think I'll shoot myself or something. :hmph: All I have right now, is my metalic base ball bat, awaiting in anticipation for the intrusion of that moron who keeps messing with my window at dark hours.

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05 Oct 2009, 1:56 am

LiendaBalla wrote:

My mother won't allow me to get a liscence, and really I do as she wishes, being under her roof like I am. She must think I'll shoot myself or something.

You don't need a license to own a gun in Texas, you only need a license in order to carry concealed.

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ascan
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05 Oct 2009, 2:43 pm

Dox47 wrote:

...There's much more out there too, this particular graph shows the massive spike in crime in the UK following the 1997 handgun ban...

Although I may agree with much of what you write about gun ownership, those UK figures don't provide any support to your argument. Prior to the ban, handguns were kept in the home under strict conditions for sporting purposes only. They'd have been locked in an approved cabinet with the ammunition stored separately. In such circumstances they would have had little use for self-defence. You need to look elsewhere for the cause of the spike on the graph you presented. I'd suggest looser border controls and the accession of various eastern european states to the EU meaning firearms can now reach us relatively freely.

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05 Oct 2009, 5:05 pm

ascan wrote:

I wasn't trying to suggest that the 1997 ban was the actual cause of the spike, instead merely pointing out that it didn't have any reducing effect on crime, which is the norm for gun control measures.

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number5
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05 Oct 2009, 9:03 pm

I have great trouble understanding why so many people are so passionate about their guns. I think there's something very Freudian about it.

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05 Oct 2009, 9:17 pm

number5 wrote:

I have great trouble understanding why so many people are so passionate about their guns. I think there's something very Freudian about it.

Guns are fun. That's pretty much it, I think. Anyone who has spent a day at a shooting range gets it. Those who have never been exposed to guns do not get it.

Thus exist discussions such as this one.

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05 Oct 2009, 9:28 pm

Dilbert wrote:

number5 wrote:

I have great trouble understanding why so many people are so passionate about their guns. I think there's something very Freudian about it.

I've been to the shooting range before and had lots of fun. I'm actually quite a natural (I'm told there's a sharp shooter gene in my family). I also have fun visiting the lions at the zoo, but I'm not going to bring one home to my family.

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05 Oct 2009, 9:51 pm

Dilbert wrote:

Guns are fun. That's pretty much it, I think. Anyone who has spent a day at a shooting rampage gets it. Those who have never been exposed to guns and participated do not get it.

Thus exist discussions such as this one.

Fixed

Just a joke, but perhaps with an agenda behind it

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Dox47
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05 Oct 2009, 10:04 pm

number5 wrote:

I have great trouble understanding why so many people are so passionate about their guns. I think there's something very Freudian about it.

Many people are passionate about their hobbies/sports, and most of those other activities don't have fervent and dishonest lobbies trying to ban them.

Also, most of the time a gun is just a gun...

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