Abortion Of Disabled Fetuses Is Compassion!

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ChrisVulcan
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26 Aug 2010, 10:05 pm

Craig28 wrote:

In my view, all disabled feteuses should be aborted. No? Let the disabled baby be born, then let that person have the choice to end his or her life. Whatever the outcome, don't think the eradication of disabilities has any level or similarities with what the Nazi's did with the Jews. Just don't, that was an entirely different thing altogether.

Why don't you try telling that to the next guy you meet who has Down Syndrome.

ChrisVulcan
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26 Aug 2010, 10:12 pm

Wombat wrote:

I have two children and thank God they were both normal and healthy. I don't think I am strong enough to handle a big problem.

As a child I remember the couple across the road. They had a "baby" that was older than I was.

It was the size of a baby but it had a head as big as a basketball, and that was when it was ten years old.
It lived to be 17 years old before it died.

They must have gone through a thousand hells. It is a wonder that they didn't divorce. As it was they never had any other children.

So tell me, how "noble" was it that those poor people kept a mindless "thing" alive for 17 years?

Quite noble. :evil:

Personally I'd rather live with a severe disability and at least have a chance at having a good life than to not live at all.

Not having a disability doesn't mean someone isn't going to suffer. You already know that everyone suffers, but think about it. If someone isn't disabled, they are abused, or neglected by their parents, or live in poverty, or deal with substance abuse, or endure family turmoil or messy divorces.

Conversely, everyone has joy in their lives, and I think it's monstrous to cheat someone out of that. :evil:

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ChrisVulcan
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26 Aug 2010, 10:18 pm

skafather84 wrote:

PunkyKat wrote:

personal life story

That's nice and all but you're here and alive. Obviously didn't go for the abortion. People always end up taking it to the level of "well, I don't want to die so I'll project that onto fetuses".

People have an odd way of not coping with mortality by taking it out on the abortion issue.

Riiiiiiiiight. I don't want children to be ruthlessly slaughtered because I'm scared of dying.

Interesting conclusion...

skafather84
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26 Aug 2010, 10:23 pm

ChrisVulcan wrote:

children

Not children.

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ChrisVulcan
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26 Aug 2010, 11:12 pm

skafather84 wrote:

ChrisVulcan wrote:

children

Not children.

Under 18 = children

I would also like to point out the bona fide child in this story.

A kid with Down Syndrome was scheduled to be aborted in the third trimester. The abortion was unsuccessful, and the child was born alive. He was literally thrown into the trash, even though he was breathing. A nurse pulled him out of the trash bin. They couldn't get to a hospital for his medical treatment because they were already at the hospital. She stayed with him so that he wouldn't have to die alone.

Hundreds of other born-alive "fetuses" have been subjected to infanticide.

Wombat
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27 Aug 2010, 7:43 am

What if your doctor told you that your fetus was deformed?

What if he told you that the child would live in constant pain and die by the age of five anyway?

Would you have an abortion or would you condemn the child to years of agony and then death?

mgran
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27 Aug 2010, 8:10 am

PunkyKat wrote:

My biological mother only got pregnant with me bia a rape. She could talk about couldn't really have a true conversation with a person. She was labled mentaly ret*d but I wonder if she was just severely AS? She was negelected as a child too whereas I was nutured. Anyway, before I was born, some wanted her to have an abortion becuase they did not think she was fit to be a mother. Sometimes I wish they would have went ahead and made her. But after I see my dificulties were because of the ignorance and cruelty of other human beings, not because of bad DNA. My eyes, ears, mucles and even brain work just fine and possibly even better than those of the normals. If I was aborted, I would have never discovered the sheer joy and bliss my special intrests bring me. Who has the right to murder an innocent child because of thier ignorance and preconceived notions? Blind, deaf, mentaly challanged and even autistic people have made wonderful controbutions to society. No one has the right to murder someone because their idea of a "quality of life".

Punkycat, I for one am very happy you are with us, though I'm terribly sorry for what was done to your mother. I hope the bastard who did it pays some day.

ChrisVulcan
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27 Aug 2010, 9:52 pm

Wombat wrote:

I would not abort. Five years of life is better than no life at all in my book. And the idea of a child with a disability living in constant pain is an outdated one at this point, because of the medical advances made in pain management or painkillers.

greenblue
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28 Aug 2010, 4:29 am

Orwell wrote:

greenblue wrote:

Vexcalibur wrote:

What about Asthma, Autism, Asperger's, Antidisestablishmentarianism, ADD, Homosexuality, Lower than 100 IQ, etc? Who decides what's disabled and what's not?

When it comes to abortion, it shouldn't matter, it must be acceptable and encouragable for ANY reason.

We would screw up the gene pool quite badly if that were the case. Routine aborting for (subjectively) undesirable traits would be disastrous for human biological diversity, which is already plenty low enough.

well, the 'encouragable' part wasn't serious, although in some aspects it may be a point to it to some degree, even though, I don't think everybody or most people are willing to abort for any of these reasons, I mean, there seem to be plenty of people who want to have their child despite knowing it would be born with a disability while others don't, and I doubt many people abort just for asthma, and being up to a point in which humanity gets screwed up, I'm not quite sure, the issue doesn't seem to indicate that the idea leads to mass abortions though, much less getting global, as pro-lifers would probably claim.

Something that I'm not quite certain is wether the law actually allows first trimester abortions for any reason or would that be a pro-lifer claim? I am generally of the idea that if a child is not desirable, for whatever reason the mother may think, then it should be better for it not to be born.

Anyway, the idea of controling births to reduce crime, seems appealing. I probably do that if I had a time machine.

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28 Aug 2010, 8:31 am

ChrisVulcan wrote:

Not be fully human? That's BS. There have been people since the beginning of time who have had parts of their brains missing or diminished, and no way do they diminish in humanity because of it. You're on a forum for people with autism spectrum disorders, which is widely considered to be a significant brain disorder (my belief that it isn't a disease aside). Are any of us inferior because of the way we were wired? Hell no.

The part of our brain that makes us human is the cerebral cortex. Without that part, the brain can never produce a human mind.

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28 Aug 2010, 7:26 pm

I don't know that aborting a fetus who would be disabled is more "compassionate" than continuing the pregnancy,
but as far as abortion in general,
I don't see that being brought into existence is somehow better than not existing/living.

For billions of years none of us existed, and we won't exist for an infinite amount of time after our death,
so I fail to see the harm.

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Craig28
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28 Aug 2010, 7:28 pm

ChrisVulcan wrote:

Craig28 wrote:

Why don't you try telling that to the next guy you meet who has Down Syndrome.

They probably wouldn't understand anyway. I've met loads.

Wombat
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29 Aug 2010, 1:19 am

I am compassionate. When my own mother was dying of cancer I offered to give her a "hot shot" of morphine to end her suffering. She refused and I obeyed her wish.

If I was a soldier and my best friend was gut-shot and begged me to shoot him then I would.

ChrisVulcan
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29 Aug 2010, 1:31 pm

ruveyn wrote:

ChrisVulcan wrote:

The part of our brain that makes us human is the cerebral cortex. Without that part, the brain can never produce a human mind.

ruveyn

I think I understand your logic. I would argue that the trait that makes human beings distinct from other creatures is the presence of free will (i.e., to behave in ways contrary to nature or nurture simply because we choose to), rather than a cognitive or perceptual function.

zer0netgain
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30 Aug 2010, 7:44 am

My 2 cents.

I see abortion as wrong on general principle.

I certainly don't think abortion should be the first thought when you learn a child is going to have a disability.

HOWEVER, there are cases that make you question IF it would be the compassionate thing to do.

I'd not wish the dilemma upon any parent to be.

skafather84
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30 Aug 2010, 10:38 am

Just one last time: it's no one's business why someone would get an abortion nor is it anyone's business if they've had an abortion or not. It's a personal matter (which is why so many fundie nutjobs are shoving their noses in it: because they can't mind their own business).

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