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How much violence will the ultraright have to commit?

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Jacoby
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10 Nov 2010, 2:20 am

You're assuming that our government doesn't use those same tactics against supposed extremist right wing groups. They most certainly do.

You talk about not owning up to this violence but you're sitting here dismissing every example of left wing violence brought up. Seems rather hypocritical.



ruveyn
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10 Nov 2010, 3:58 am

Master_Pedant wrote:

A physician who provides abortions is murdered..



A man was killed in the bombing of a university computer center by people from SDS, a radical left wing group. Violence is not exclusive with the political right by any means.

By the way the people who did in the abortion doctor were members of a Christian evangelical church which believed that Killing an Abortionist for Khrist will get one into heaven.

ruveyn



Jacoby
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10 Nov 2010, 6:57 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_aqeYXVeaM&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

ummmm, yea



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10 Nov 2010, 11:09 am

LKL wrote:
parrow wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Joyce Kaufman is threatening violence.


I'd guess you're talking about her suggesting capital punishment illegal immigrants committing crimes? Capital punishment for petty crimes is stupid, but not threatening violence.

quote:
"If you commit a crime while you're here, we should hang you and send your body back to where you came from, and your family should pay for it."


Actually the quote I was thinking of:

Quote:
I am convinced that the most important thing the founding fathers did to ensure me my first amendments right was they gave me a second amendment. And if ballots don't work, bullets will.


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xenon13
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10 Nov 2010, 11:48 am

Jacoby wrote:
The attempted mail bombings that happened in Greece was done by communist groups. Joe Stack ended his life with the communist creed. Radical environmentalist and Malthusian James Lee took the Discovery Channel hostage and got himself killed. That's just this year.

The thing is, whenever some right wing person does something, it's an indictment on the whole movement but whenever someone left wing does something it's because they're a lone nut.

As for Timothy McVeigh, the reason he left the "militia" movement was because he didn't think they were hardcore enough.


Stack did not end his life with the communist creed. He was delivering some bitter humour - the communists say "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need", the Capitalists say "From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed". Seems right enough particularly in this era of Caveat Emptor - in the USA they're going to ban class action suits against corporations if the Roberts Court maintains its tendency.

The mail bombings in Greece were totally expected. The right wing EU leaders have robbed the Greek people blind in ways that are unfathomable. By the way, in recent Greek elections, the hard left won a faction nearly as large as PASOK and New Democracy and turnout was way, way down from last time. Papandreou claimed this to a referendum on his rule and that he'd resign with such results but he has flip-flopped on that.



Master_Pedant
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10 Nov 2010, 12:07 pm

Jacoby wrote:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_aqeYXVeaM&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

ummmm, yea


Dylan Ratigan is a vague, nee-jerk anti-establishmentarian and not much of a liberal Democrat. Ted Rall is just a delusional fool and will, in all probability, be on the CIA watchlist shortly .

Given that Ratigan's voters aren't loaded to the teeth, that violent on average, or adoring of his beliefs I doubt they'll take this insinuation that the time for bloody revolution has came.

The Left's reaction:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/11/9 ... o-the-hole

Jed Lewison wrote:
Dylan Ratigan chases Glenn Beck into the hole
Share24 4by Jed Lewison
Tue Nov 09, 2010 at 10:00:04 AM PST
I watch Dylan Ratigan about as often as I watch Glenn Beck -- which is to say that I almost never waste my time on either of them. But there's been some buzz about this segment from Ratigan's show yesterday in which he interviewed cartoonist Ted Rall about whether the time has come for a violent revolution, so I decided to watch it. It wasn't pretty:



Just like Beck, Ratigan doesn't come right out and say that he wants a violent revolution. He just says we need a revolution, and even though he'd prefer that it not be violent, nothing else seems to be working. And his guest Ted Rall agrees that neither Republicans nor Democrats have solved any problems facing the country and that passive resistance has failed, so what else is left, right?

...

By the end of the segment, the only thing I could think about was the fact that on the last day of Keith Olbermann's suspension for failing to ask permission to make a campaign contribution, MSNBC's daytime programming was chasing Glenn Beck into his paranoid and delusional rathole, hosting a serious discussion about whether the time has come to violently overthrow that very same system in which Olbermann sought to peacefully participate. Talk about screwed up priorities.

Update: To all ye conservatives who think this is an example of a liberal Democratic MSNBC host advocating revolution, (a) Ratigan is emphatically not a Democrat and (b) he calls himself a conservative, saying in September that "I consider myself a conservative" and on April 14 telling Mike Pence that "you and I -- both of us come from a fairly conservative mindset, especially when it comes to business and enterprise in this country."


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Master_Pedant
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10 Nov 2010, 12:08 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:

A physician who provides abortions is murdered..



A man was killed in the bombing of a university computer center by people from SDS, a radical left wing group. Violence is not exclusive with the political right by any means.

By the way the people who did in the abortion doctor were members of a Christian evangelical church which believed that Killing an Abortionist for Khrist will get one into heaven.

ruveyn


You do know that I was pretty much talking about violence ever since the start of the conservative era (1980s - now), not before it, with a particular eye to the Obama and Clinton presidencies?


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ruveyn
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10 Nov 2010, 12:35 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:

A physician who provides abortions is murdered..



A man was killed in the bombing of a university computer center by people from SDS, a radical left wing group. Violence is not exclusive with the political right by any means.

By the way the people who did in the abortion doctor were members of a Christian evangelical church which believed that Killing an Abortionist for Khrist will get one into heaven.

ruveyn


You do know that I was pretty much talking about violence ever since the start of the conservative era (1980s - now), not before it, with a particular eye to the Obama and Clinton presidencies?


That is irrelevant. People on all parts of the spectrum have been committing politically or religiously motivated violence since God invented dirt.

ruveyn



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10 Nov 2010, 12:58 pm

ruveyn wrote:
That is irrelevant. People on all parts of the spectrum have been committing politically or religiously motivated violence since God invented dirt.

ruveyn


Did you actually read my OP? If you did you'd realie that rebuttal is absolutely irrelevant. I never claimed that "THE RIGHT IS THE ONLY MOVEMENT EVER TO COMMIT POLITICAL VIOLENCE" or anything likewise nonsensical. I said that when it comes to the United States the far-right is the biggest player in the violence game and this is a particular problem as the "mainstream" right fuels it in a manner the Democratic Party never did when it came to 1960s era radicalism.


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10 Nov 2010, 2:04 pm

I asked if you where American or Canadian not where you live pedant. Also its just going to make you look bad defending the left's radicals like that, Its also not going to result in anything so there is no real reason to do it.



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10 Nov 2010, 3:08 pm

Jacoby wrote:
You're assuming that our government doesn't use those same tactics against supposed extremist right wing groups. They most certainly do.

You talk about not owning up to this violence but you're sitting here dismissing every example of left wing violence brought up. Seems rather hypocritical.


I could go beyond the that and point out that Bill O'Reilly had to threaten to sue the White House during the Clinton Administration because they kept using the IRS to target him with audits.

Fox News Channel analyst Bill O'Reilly, a frequent critic of Bill and Hillary Clinton, has also pointed out how the IRS has repeatedly audited him.

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/art ... 0136.shtml



xenon13
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10 Nov 2010, 4:37 pm

The ultraright has the protection of very powerful people and of one of the major American political parties. If there's another McVeigh, sure they'll execute him, but it won't in any way "discredit" his beliefs unlike in the case of disfavoured ideologies in the name of which violence is committed. People who promote McVeighism will not be charged and will continue to encourage violence. Remember that G Gordon Liddy demanded the assassination of federal agents not long before the McVeigh attack and he was never touched. Potential McVeighs won't be stigmatised and subject to crackdown as Muslims are, for instance.



Inuyasha
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10 Nov 2010, 4:56 pm

xenon13 wrote:
The ultraright has the protection of very powerful people and of one of the major American political parties. If there's another McVeigh, sure they'll execute him, but it won't in any way "discredit" his beliefs unlike in the case of disfavoured ideologies in the name of which violence is committed. People who promote McVeighism will not be charged and will continue to encourage violence. Remember that G Gordon Liddy demanded the assassination of federal agents not long before the McVeigh attack and he was never touched. Potential McVeighs won't be stigmatised and subject to crackdown as Muslims are, for instance.


:roll:

In all honesty most (the overwhelming majority in fact) Conservative Groups condemn the kind of violence perpetrated by McVeigh. Also did you know there are arguments that McVeigh was in fact a Liberal. I'm not going to label him as either side though and call him a mental case. Heck the militia groups you find so threatening thought McVeigh was psychotic. One thing you have to recognize about people on the far right is sometimes they start saying something that sounds threatening and it is just them venting.

Furthermore you talk about the Far-Right being protected by the Government, that's a load of garbage.

Heck President Bill Clinton used the IRS to target people that publicly criticized him.

Furthermore, if McVeigh was right wing, he was so far out there that he made Rush Limbaugh look as far left as Nancy Pelosi.



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10 Nov 2010, 7:16 pm

Someone remind me, what's the bodycount since Obama's election again? Judging from the thread title it would seem it should be in the ten's, maybe even the dozens!

Also, it would seem to me that the easiest way to answer the "question" put forth in the OP would be to track down one of these "ultra" conservatives and ask them. I'm going to need another reminder though; what is it that makes these particular conservatives "ultra" again? I must have missed that post.


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Jacoby
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10 Nov 2010, 7:37 pm

MP considers everyone right of Obama and the democrats to be ultra-right I believe.



xenon13
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10 Nov 2010, 10:03 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
The ultraright has the protection of very powerful people and of one of the major American political parties. If there's another McVeigh, sure they'll execute him, but it won't in any way "discredit" his beliefs unlike in the case of disfavoured ideologies in the name of which violence is committed. People who promote McVeighism will not be charged and will continue to encourage violence. Remember that G Gordon Liddy demanded the assassination of federal agents not long before the McVeigh attack and he was never touched. Potential McVeighs won't be stigmatised and subject to crackdown as Muslims are, for instance.


:roll:

In all honesty most (the overwhelming majority in fact) Conservative Groups condemn the kind of violence perpetrated by McVeigh. Also did you know there are arguments that McVeigh was in fact a Liberal. I'm not going to label him as either side though and call him a mental case. Heck the militia groups you find so threatening thought McVeigh was psychotic. One thing you have to recognize about people on the far right is sometimes they start saying something that sounds threatening and it is just them venting.

Furthermore you talk about the Far-Right being protected by the Government, that's a load of garbage.

Heck President Bill Clinton used the IRS to target people that publicly criticized him.

Furthermore, if McVeigh was right wing, he was so far out there that he made Rush Limbaugh look as far left as Nancy Pelosi.



How many times are those subject to class war told to be ultra-docile lest any violence taint their movement irretrievably? The Right of course is never tainted by G Gordon Liddy or McVeigh or any of these people. Deux poids, deux mesures, as always.