Florida's republican governer elect, a real winner....

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marshall
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05 Jan 2011, 2:54 pm

visagrunt wrote:

I am going to side (substantively) with ruveyn on this one.

The "directing mind" theory of liability is not generally accepted in common law jurisdictions, absent some specific statutory attempt to impute criminal liability.

Now I have no doubt that this man is a scoundrel of the first order who deserves to be held accountable for the things that were done under his watch. But to describe him as a, "criminal," is to take liberties with the meaning of the word. He may be a liar, a con artist and a man with the ethics of feral cat--but let's not allow him to defend himself by calling him a criminal when he is not proved so to be.

I agree. I'm not calling him to be thrown in jail or anything. All we know is that he was highly irresponsible as a CEO. I just find it massively hypocritical that the establishment will whitewash and support this guy without "asking questions". Voters wouldn't offer the same latitude to any Democratic candidate. This just proves the disgusting level of cynical partisanship and uncritical thinking in conservative voters. By voting for this man conservatives have lost all credibility. They have no right to attack democrats over much weaker scandals.

Dox47
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05 Jan 2011, 3:23 pm

marshall wrote:

Voters wouldn't offer the same latitude to any Democratic candidate.

Do the names Charlie Rangel and Maxine Waters mean anything to you, Marshall? Rangel just one reelection with something like 80% of the vote despite being found guilty of corruption, Waters is in similar hot water. Ted Kennedy is another infamous Democrat who managed a long political career despite some very questionable personal background, or John Murtha getting caught up in ABSCAM in the '80s but skating out from under it. Voting for crooks is hardly a uniquely conservative failing.

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ruveyn
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05 Jan 2011, 3:40 pm

Dox47 wrote:

marshall wrote:

Voters wouldn't offer the same latitude to any Democratic candidate.

Teddy, the Swimmer of Chapaquidic he left Mary Jo Copeckne to drown in the car. In the Commonwealth of MA a Kennedy can get away with anything including negligent homicide.

Then go back even further to the thrilling days of Adam Clayton Powell, a crook and a slime ball. But he was black and he could get away with it in New York.

Both Democrats.

ruveyn

Dox47
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05 Jan 2011, 3:53 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Then go back even further to the thrilling days of Adam Clayton Powell, a crook and a slime ball. But he was black and he could get away with it in New York.

ruveyn

Hmm, I guess it should be no surprise then that Charlie Rangel is in Clayton Powell's old seat.

At the risk of appearing to pick on black voters, I'll also throw in Marion Barry for shear egregiousness. As Chris Rock famously put it, you can't get caught smoking crack at McDonald's and get your job back, but apparantly the DC electorate isn't as stringent as Micky D's...

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marshall
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05 Jan 2011, 6:24 pm

Dox47 wrote:

marshall wrote:

Voters wouldn't offer the same latitude to any Democratic candidate.

The stuff on Charlie Rangel and Maxine Waters looks like mere chump change compared to the fraudulent sums involved with the company Rick Scott was CEO of. As for Ted Kennedy, well he was a Kennedy.

Jacoby
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05 Jan 2011, 6:48 pm

xenon13 wrote:

Sometimes I'm surprised that there haven't been assassinations of these people yet - it just shows that the people who would be going around assassinating people have been encouraged to be on the side of the monsters, not to turn against them.

So Rick Scott deserves to die is what you're saying?

marshall
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05 Jan 2011, 7:40 pm

Jacoby wrote:

xenon13 wrote:

So Rick Scott deserves to die is what you're saying?

I hope not. I can understand xenon13 being angry but killing someone like Rick Scott would not be justice.

Pistonhead
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05 Jan 2011, 7:57 pm

Everyone deserves to die.

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auntblabby
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06 Jan 2011, 1:37 am

Pistonhead wrote:

Everyone deserves to die.

yeah, kill 'em all and let god sort it all out.

phil777
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06 Jan 2011, 2:39 am

Piston, don't make me quote Gandalf! <.<

Dox47
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06 Jan 2011, 4:25 am

xenon13 wrote:

Clever assassins only work for people that can pay them. Then again, I haven't noticed many leftist figures being bumped off lately either, so I guess the plutocracy don't consider contract killing exactly efficient; lobbyists apparantly provide more bang for their buck.

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marshall
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06 Jan 2011, 10:26 am

Dox47 wrote:

xenon13 wrote:

I don't think xenon13 was talking about a "professional" job. He's talking more about the lone raging vigilante that doesn't care if he/she gets caught. A Tim McVeigh type. In this country there seem to be more unstable people that feel aggrieved at the abuses of government than unstable people who feel aggrieved at the abuses of the "plutocracy".

xenon13
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06 Jan 2011, 12:54 pm

visagrunt wrote:

They didn't even try to charge him in court for this. Moreover, the Nazi command clearly were not war criminals according to this logic.

xenon13
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06 Jan 2011, 12:57 pm

Leftist figures are not powerful enough to be worth assassinating. They aren't people who have committed endless outrages and got away with it. People commit political crimes if they think they can get a lot of people to chant "Yes!" after they hear of it. That's what the 911 people were trying to do. I doubt that there'd be a significant number of people passionately pleased if Nancy Pelosi were murdered. No one can make a case for her being some irredeemable villain so much so that this would overpower the disgust people would have for a murder.

visagrunt
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06 Jan 2011, 1:14 pm

xenon13 wrote:

They didn't even try to charge him in court for this. Moreover, the Nazi command clearly were not war criminals according to this logic.

Well, I'm certainly not going to second guess a prosecutor's decision not to proceed--if, indeed, such a decision was made.

As for war crimes, the "directing mind" doctrine is a function of corporate criminal liability. The liability of states and state agents is a different field, entirely.

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naturalplastic
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06 Jan 2011, 2:25 pm

ruveyn wrote:

xenon13 wrote:

He was in command. He should have been convicted personally of a felony. The corporation under his command was convicted of 14 felonies. That he was not convicted personally is proof that the wealthy never pay for their crimes. If this was the war crimes trials they'd have nailed him for life. They executed a Japanese general for the acts of soldiers that were known to be out of his control.

Shudah, Wudah, Cudah. Was he ever indicted (personally) and if so was he ever convicted? If the answer is no and no, he is not disqualified (legally) to hold office in Florida.

ruveyn

They never convicted Al Capone of anything either( until finnally contriving to get him for tax evasion) so lets run Al Capone on the other ticket!
Whether its legal is irrelevent -the question is whether its wise to vote for him or not.

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Florida's republican governer elect, a real winner....