Autism and atheism

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Horus
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07 Jan 2011, 3:49 am

Lace-Bane wrote:

This has more to do with autism than atheism, so I figured it would fit better in autism discussion. *Sigh* I'm guessing this might piss some people off... but whatever :roll:

I've been constantly curious as to why so many people with autism are atheist. It's claimed to be a logical answer because all religions have loop holes in their lore. Really though, atheism is an emotional choice to religion. There's not really any logic in saying a creator cannot exist because Christianity doesn't make logical sense. It's just as much blind faith to say a god cannot exist because the bible is faulty as it is to be a Christian or any other religion. Also there seems to be a lack of individualism in atheism because I can't understand why they choose to note other religions as a claim to how there can't be a god. Really the only logical choice truely would be to be open to the possibility of a creator/higher power and also to the possibility to that there might be nothing more.

I guess I also get miffed whenever I look at someones religious topic and then 2/3 of the population who reads it has to post that there's no god because it's illogical... when the statements they use are illogical themselves. If a religion is illogical... then don't use that as reference to why there can't be a god with "Illogical sources".

Back to the emotional source of atheism, I'd have to say there would have to be some strong feeling behind feeling one has to bash other religions... when if it wasn't a heated emotional response... one wouldn't bother to say anything. All on top, atheism isn't any less of a religion than Christianity.

To really finish up, I'm just curious as to why it's so common for an autistic person to be atheist when there's no real logic behind it either. Science can prove nothing that man doesn't understand in a whole. As in, maybe every religion that has a creator is getting it wrong... it doesn't mean that because the possibility that man sucks at predicting what a creator is... that there is no creator. Also science doesn't prove anything... maybe whatever governs this world used science to create it

. I guess I'm just wondering why it's so common for autistic people to be atheist and use logic as an explanation as to why they are atheist. There's no sensible logic there

.

Anyway, I'll just note that I'm not religious or atheist. I'm the middle ground stated above. The type that's just open to possibility. I'm fairly spiritual, but I can't find a religion that makes sense either so I'm just going with what's possible and I like to live my life by the good ideals I see in religions. I also believe in the human spirit for whatever that's worth so I do try to be good

.

Feel free to discuss

I am an atheist and a rather militant and anti-theistic one.

What all this means to me is very simple.

I do not BELIEVE in the existence of a personal god. I have never once said i'm CERTAIN such a being doesn't exist. Still.....I find it next to impossible to square the existence of a personal god who omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent with existence as we know it.

No one has proven there is any other existence aside from the "as we know it" one.

For one thing....how could such a being be defined as "omnibenevolent" AND "omnipotent" when considering all the unspeakable horrors that existence (human and otherwise) all too often brings?

How could we have any "free will" (not that I believe humans have any with or without a "higher power") if this being is omniscient?

I may piss some people off even more than you for saying I find the whole idea of god to be inexpressibly repulsive and illogical. As for Christianty, I find it as "indecent" as Nietzsche believed Christian believers were in his own time. I have no problem with Christ himself irrespective of whether he was a real historical figure or not. Indeed....much of what he taught can be viewed as the ideal of human conduct IMO.

The fiendish farce that bears his name is what I take issue with. Along with all the other exoteric religions (and capitalism, the implicit, unquestioned belief in free will, overpopulation and a whole host of other applied and appalling human mental constructs, values and destructive behaviors)......christianity has made a critical contribution to the utter misery and poisoning of all worthy things in the world.

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kx250rider
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07 Jan 2011, 12:31 pm

I don't know why, but I agree that most Asperger's and Autism people with whom I'm acquainted, are either atheist or agnostic. I'm somewhere between those, and I was raised a Christian. I "go along with" Christianity for the reason of not wanting to make a big deal out of it, but honestly I would need scientific facts to be a true believer. I do not believe the world is an accident, and I find it logical that there is/was a force or an intelligence behind it all. But I just can't accept a tale of factually unknown origin, and which has been not only interpreted from imagery many times, but has been translated by political figures and monarchs over thousands of years, in many languages which cannot even be translated accurately to any modern language.

So I neither believe nor disbelieve the Christian account of creation...

I relate this feeling to my need to see and feel and understand (mathematically or scientifically) how and why anything is the way it is. I could not accept the concept of television until I got old enough to read technical manuals, and eventually made TV repair into a career when I was in my teens & twenties. I could not accept how an engine makes a car move, until I took it apart and understood how the exploding charge of gas, pushes a piston, which turns a crank, etc etc. I had to go enroll in a flight school because it drove me crazy not to fully understand the principles of airplanes, and I could list plenty more such cases. I need to understand things in a certain way, or I can't accept.

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07 Jan 2011, 1:15 pm

I am an atheist because I see no reason, either personally or scientifically, to believe in a god.

a- without

theism- a belief in a god.

atheism- without a belief in god

I don't have any great insight into why other Aspies are atheists.

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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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07 Jan 2011, 1:26 pm

We are not going to be finding God in one sentence :lol:

I consider myself agnostic, the safest catagory.

My question to all the atheists out there....do you guys believe that it is impossible for any godlike entity to exist throughout the universe with it's billions upon billions of star systems, or do you just not believe in the kind of God you see in holy books like the Bible?

There could very well be beings in existence somewhere who have mastered scientific laws to the point they appear godlike, even creating entire galaxies with their technology for all we know. It's possible.

They might not be the same as the God of the bible, but what if they are responsible for mind controlling devices and they have a galaxy they created for their own amusement just so they entertain themselves and get an enternal endorphine producing power trip controlling everything therein.
Who knows, to them, building a galaxy is like building a subdivision. Maybe they have already built many. This could have been happening for millions of years.

Once you do understand those scientific laws such things become possible and the universe can be manipulated the way a God might.

Zen
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07 Jan 2011, 5:38 pm

^ That reminds me... Someone I know once said he thought God was a giant child and we were all ants in his ant farm. :lol:

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07 Jan 2011, 7:04 pm

kx250rider wrote:

I relate this feeling to my need to see and feel and understand (mathematically or scientifically) how and why anything is the way it is. I could not accept the concept of television until I got old enough to read technical manuals, and eventually made TV repair into a career when I was in my teens & twenties. I could not accept how an engine makes a car move, until I took it apart and understood how the exploding charge of gas, pushes a piston, which turns a crank, etc etc. I had to go enroll in a flight school because it drove me crazy not to fully understand the principles of airplanes, and I could list plenty more such cases. I need to understand things in a certain way, or I can't accept.

That really puzzles me. Not about God but thinking that way about televisions. It's almost the opposite of how I relate to the world.

I can certainly be interested in how things work if I find out, but I don't feel any driving need to understand things in order to accept them. Generally if I notice something that's enough to tell me it exists. It confuses me that a person could think their understanding of something in detail is necessary for it to exist. It's hard for me to even get up into the thoughts required to understand that kind of thing, I generally operate on a sensory level more than the world of ideas, so all that's necessary for me to believe something is to notice it. Actually to call what I do belief might be stretching it a little far, since belief seems a bit abstract and idea-ish compared to things just being and me just noticing them, sort of.

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07 Jan 2011, 7:11 pm

I find it ironic that many atheists are no less sure of the absolute correctness of their position on the matter than the most ardent fundamentalist Christian or most rabidly violent jihadist.

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07 Jan 2011, 7:48 pm

azurecrayon wrote:

i cant even type the word jesus without my browser underlining it in red and prompting me that its an error and should be capitalized!

I don't think the red underlining of the word is the result of religion's effect upon society so much as it is because Jesus is a name and a proper noun. I presume that (unless you've disabled the spell checker) on your use of the lowercase 'i' that spell check also flags it as misspelled since, in English, 'i' is capitalized unless part of a word not beginning a sentence or proper noun or where the letter is singled out, usually indicated by italics or apostrophes/quotation marks. So that's probably just the English language setting. (Unless your setting isn't English and I have no experience outside the English language setting - unless you count borrowing my German friend's computer and typing in English where every word was underlined, save for the few he'd saved to his computer's dictionary.)

As for the topic's question of why it appears to some that there are more atheists in the autistic community than outside, I can neither validate that observation (as I have seen just as many neurotypical atheists as autistic ones) nor can I really give anything more than my opinion.

Logic may play a role, but its role is debatable in each case. Some may act out of an emotional response (bad experiences with religion - organized or not), some may simply have been raised in an atheistic household and had no objections to it (and I classify this as emotional because familial ties do influence religious standings to a degree, although it varies from case to case) or something else entirely. Some may also find it hard to reconcile the apparent disputes between science and religion (often thought of as incompatible but there are scientists who are religious and religious persons who trust science) and have chosen science, which offers more (for lack of better word) proof. Science is something they can see and understand.

As for the religious ones, their reasons vary just as much as the atheistic ones.

Really, I don't think that autism/Asperger's Syndrome has much influence on your viewpoint of religion/spirituality/belief in a god or higher power. I think it comes down to personality, experience, and other personal factors.

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07 Jan 2011, 9:01 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:

I find it ironic that many atheists are no less sure of the absolute correctness of their position on the matter than the most ardent fundamentalist Christian or most rabidly violent jihadist.

I see no reason to believe in a god; therefore, I don't. Most of the atheists I speak with have a similiar viewpoint.

If you want to claim a god exists, the onus is on you to 1.) define "god," and 2.) present evidence for your supposed "god." If you cannot do this, then I will continue to have no reason to believe in your "god." I don't see what me currently having no reason to believe in a god has to do with "absolute correctness."

Should I not be "sure" of the fact I currently have no reason to believe in a god?

Quote:

My question to all the atheists out there....do you guys believe that it is impossible for any godlike entity to exist throughout the universe with it's billions upon billions of star systems,

Atheism is the lack of belief in a god, not necessarily the belief that a god doesn't/can't exist.

Quote:

or do you just not believe in the kind of God you see in holy books like the Bible?

The god of the Bible makes no rational sense to me; therefore, I don't believe in him, and even if you wanted to argue that the Christian god doesn't have to make rational sense in order to exist, I find that, if the Christian god did exist, then he is not worthy of my worship.

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08 Jan 2011, 10:24 pm

Page 1, First post, please read the edit

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wavefreak58
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08 Jan 2011, 10:31 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:

Irony in force. Where did my statement make any reference to the existence or non-existence of god? I was pointing out similar states of minds in atheists and theists. And you completely missed that, proving my point quite nicely

Quote:

Atheism is the lack of belief in a god, not necessarily the belief that a god doesn't/can't exist.

Sophistry. But an argument for a different thread.

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Last edited by wavefreak58 on 08 Jan 2011, 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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08 Jan 2011, 10:38 pm

It might not be possible to present evidence of existence if godlike entities are billion of light years from planet earth. I do have faith in their existence, just as sure as I know humans are capable of living together on an international space station or are capable of choosing what genes they have. It seems logical that an alien species could be far more advanced than we are now in their evolution, to the point they can manipulate their surroundings in the way a God can...
Does this mean they have an impact on my life. Most likely, no. Just as I haven't seen evidence for the existence of ghosts or phantoms, I have seen nothing that leads me to think that Gods or a God affect life on earth other than an idea influencing the way people think.
Could they one day? Well yeah, when the species known as "The Gods" has reason to contact us, are close enough to.
In space, space really is the issue. There's so much distance.

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08 Jan 2011, 10:51 pm

I'm sure someone has already explained the thing you have misunderstood about the word atheist.

Anyway, I've always been atheist because religion just never seemed interesting and I didn't understand it. It also seemed pointless, because weather or not a god exists, here the world is. Ta-daaah. I don't see why its origin is of such an incredible personal interest to so many people. I mean it would be interesting to know exactly how existence happened, but.. I can wait. It seems really pointless to guess around and jump to conclusions when you really don't have much information and the answer probably won't be applicable in any practical sense. (Not to me anyway. I'm not a rocket scientist.)

And even if something did make the universe, I don't see why anyone has to worship it. I mean, I would admire it and be fascinated by it and I'd say "wow thanks for making this, it's really cool and I love living here" but that would be it.

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08 Jan 2011, 10:58 pm

wigglyspider wrote:

I'm sure someone has already explained the thing you have misunderstood about the word atheist.

I wonder if atheism is a viable concept considering what we know about evolution and the laws of life.
If complex life forms are capable of evolution to the point of manipulating the universe itself, atheism as we know it might not exist.

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08 Jan 2011, 11:01 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

wigglyspider wrote:

I'm sure someone has already explained the thing you have misunderstood about the word atheist.

I wonder if atheist is a viable concept considering what we know about evolution and the laws of life.

You trying to start something? I've never heard anyone suggest atheism wasn't valid on a conceptual level. This should be interesting. I'm going to go put on a flak jacket. Be back in a few minutes. :lol:

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08 Jan 2011, 11:02 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

wigglyspider wrote:

I'm sure someone has already explained the thing you have misunderstood about the word atheist.

I wonder if atheist is a viable concept considering what we know about evolution and the laws of life.

I edited my post for elaboration's sake. Not sure what a flak jacket is...When you consider humans and their evolutionary journey it does negate everything we know about atheism...

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