What's the alternative to capitalism?

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skafather84
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25 Jan 2011, 4:21 pm

ruveyn wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

So....you're saying pride is purely a capitalist venture?

No. It is a human thing. The trouble with Socialism is that it pushes altruism to an unworkable degree.

Altruism is natural but not to the point of self destruction. In the last analysis each of us cares more for his own kids than For The Children.

ruveyn

"The Children" is little more than a political ploy to dupe suckers into giving the government far-reaching controls over private aspects of individuals' lives and normally has little to nothing to do with the actual children in question; it more has to do with playing off of most parents' uncomfort* or laziness with issues.

As far as pushing too far, I'd argue the work done to push toward somewhere between corporatism and anarcho-capitalism (one in the same when you follow the latter to its logical conclusion) is much the same in its unworkable degrees.

*immaturity, really...but I'm being generous and calling it "uncomfort" since it seems most adults can't handle the words penis or vagina without blushing like a 12 year old.

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hightechdan
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25 Jan 2011, 4:38 pm

Corporatism is what I would call the climate in the US for decades. Behemoth corporations are in bed with leviathan government and controlling more and more aspects of our lives.

How do you figure that anarcho-capitalism would have the same result? For starters, a corporation is a legal fiction that wouldn't be supported in a free society.

Dantac
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25 Jan 2011, 4:48 pm

91 wrote:

@ Dantac

The problem is that there are ideas in this world valued more highly than 10million dollars. There are also projects that need more than this in capital and then there are decisions that require more faith than a crowd of investors can muster.

That is true in the current system where money, not the benefit of or the achievement of a thing is the sole purpose for doing it.

Vigilans
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25 Jan 2011, 4:50 pm

That is true... the alternative to capitalism is an overall shift of paradigm

Philologos
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25 Jan 2011, 4:53 pm

Skafather the how manyethL

"Huey is a socialist." -

Is he still around? Seems like a Long time.

skafather84
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25 Jan 2011, 5:14 pm

hightechdan wrote:

Simple reduction. Biggest and most aggressive wins. You think that anarcho-capitalism wouldn't simply speed up the centralization process and the process of corporations forming their own enforcement troopers?

skafather84
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25 Jan 2011, 5:15 pm

Philologos wrote:

Skafather the how manyethL

"Huey is a socialist." -

Is he still around? Seems like a Long time.

I assumed you meant the boondocks strip/cartoon. The character Huey Freeman is a socialist.

hightechdan
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25 Jan 2011, 5:41 pm

skafather84 wrote:

hightechdan wrote:

Corporations wouldn't survive without the favors bestowed on them by government.

Take government-granted monopoly privileges, for one. Big companies are constantly lobbying for more regulation in their industries because it creates a bigger barrier to entry for new competitors. Patent law does a similar thing where wealthy businesses can hire attorneys to navigate the patent thicket and cross-license any necessary technology for the privilege of producing a product. Take those away and any time MegaCorp starts to make above-average profits anyone else can step in and do the same thing.

As for the enforcement troopers, violence is a terribly expensive and unprofitable proposition unless you are already the biggest player by far, i.e. the government.

Vexcalibur
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25 Jan 2011, 11:33 pm

ruveyn wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Capitalism is the cattle prod for the morons of the world who don't understand how and why the world works. Those who abuse capitalism for their own gains tend to discourage proper education because that means they can keep their power longer.

Right. The Socialists are the enlightened ones. And what have they produced lately?

ruveyn

false dichotomy much eh?

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ruveyn
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25 Jan 2011, 11:33 pm

hightechdan wrote:

Corporations wouldn't survive without the favors bestowed on them by government.
.

Did WalMart ever get any government subsidies?

How about CVS Pharmacy or Walgreens Drug Stores?

Kentucky Fried Chicken? Wendy's Hyatt Hotels? White Castle Hamburger? Dunkin' Donuts? Howard Johnson Motor Inn? Greyhound Bus?

ruveyn

Orwell
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25 Jan 2011, 11:40 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Did WalMart ever get any government subsidies?

Yes, through tax loopholes that border on fraud.

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ruveyn
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25 Jan 2011, 11:51 pm

Orwell wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Did WalMart ever get any government subsidies?

Yes, through tax loopholes that border on fraud.

Please specify and provide references. Was Walmart the recipient of tax benefits that other corporations did not get? For example the depletion allowances that oil producers receive. Or was Walmart a recipient of tax breaks that many corporations receive. There is a difference between a tax break and a subsidy. Just a note here: a tax loop hole is part of the Law and is therefore not a fraud. A fraud is a misrepresentation which is punishable either criminally or in torts. Any thing legal is BY DEFINITION kosher. Legal tax avoidance is upright and kosher. Anyone who pays one more cent in taxes than the law requires is a fool and deserves the suffering he gets by paying more than he should.

What about the other corps that I mentioned?

ruveyn

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26 Jan 2011, 12:51 am

Distributism...if that could ever work in reality and not just in the realm of Shiny Pretty Theories.

Philologos
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26 Jan 2011, 1:01 am

skafather84 wrote:

Philologos wrote:

Skafather the how manyethL

"Huey is a socialist." -

Is he still around? Seems like a Long time.

I assumed you meant the boondocks strip/cartoon. The character Huey Freeman is a socialist.

Ah, assumptions. Looking at the attribution of you to New Orleans, I assumed you meant Huey Long. The Boondocks strip I never done heard on in my everlovin' blue-eyed life. Latest I know is Calvin and Hobbes, prime time for me Dick Tracy and Pogo. All I know about Huey Long is he was Huey Long and that he and Mayors Daley proved the age of empires is not over.

Dox47
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26 Jan 2011, 3:24 am

Squalor.

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hightechdan
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26 Jan 2011, 12:52 pm

ruveyn wrote:

hightechdan wrote:

Corporations wouldn't survive without the favors bestowed on them by government.
.

WalMart is often given cheap property taken from other parties through eminent domain.

Pharmacies benefit from the high prices created by the FDA and subsidized by Medicare and Medicaid.

Restaurants have a plethora of local, state, and federal health regulations, as if you need to have, for example, a $50,000 professional oven hood in order to prevent food poisoning. Just try opening up your own restaurant and you'll find out you need some major financing just for your operation to be legal.

Almost anywhere you look established businesses use political connections to protect themselves from competition. That isn't to say that every big business would simply fold without these favors, but competition would weed out any of them that weren't serving their customers' needs.

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