If Wallmart paid it's employees a living wage...

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25 Apr 2011, 8:19 am

The reason Wal-Mart is so successful is that it sells inexpensive stuff. It can sell at a low price because it keeps its labor costs down and buys its stock at a good price. It is successful because lots of people seeking low price goods go to Wal-Mart and buy from them. So Wal-Mart is successful because its customers make it successful. They get their money by selling at a profit, not by collecting government subsidies funded by money stolen from the tax payers.

ruveyn

JakobVirgil
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25 Apr 2011, 8:44 am

ruveyn wrote:

The reason Wal-Mart is so successful is that it sells inexpensive stuff. It can sell at a low price because it keeps its labor costs down and buys its stock at a good price. It is successful because lots of people seeking low price goods go to Wal-Mart and buy from them. So Wal-Mart is successful because its customers make it successful. They get their money by selling at a profit, not by collecting government subsidies funded by money stolen from the tax payers.

ruveyn

Libertarian piece on Walmarts reception of Corporate Welfare
walmarts business model is based on tax-holidays, Eminent domain, and using civic monies to build its giant boxes.
nothing a free-market proponent should defend.

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ruveyn
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25 Apr 2011, 9:02 am

JakobVirgil wrote:

walmarts business model is based on tax-holidays, Eminent domain, and using civic monies to build its giant boxes.
nothing a free-market proponent should defend.

Documentary evidence please. And there should be a permanent tax holiday for Americans. ALL of us.

By the way, eminent domain is perfectly constitutional. Private property can be taken for public use which includes opening up parcels of land for businesses. I do not know where land was seized from a private owner and given -specifically- to Wal Mart or any other firm. Also zoning rules can change which favor commercial uses of land. All of which is good for the property tax base..

Can you demonstrate that Wal Mart has received specific grants and subsidies and taxpayer expense?

However WalMart's success derives from its -customers-. People are willing to to to WalMart and buy stuff there. WalMart has not received a penny of income from a government subsidy or grant or a government contract. It all comes from the pockets of willing buyers who do not give one good sh*t for the poor exploited Worker. All that matters to them is getting good enough stuff cheap.

ruveyun

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25 Apr 2011, 9:23 am

psychohist wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Daryl_Blonder wrote:

If all these service jobs raised their employees' wages... costs would go up and it wouldn't do any good anyway. Basic economics.

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Check out my IMDB page!

If you actually read the article, you'd see that they covered that. It'd be 46 cents more per visit or roughtly $12 more per year.

If you actually read his comment, you'd see it applied to more than just Walmart.

Last I checked, the subject at hand was Wal-Mart alone. Commentary on other places is reserved for another time and place.

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skafather84
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25 Apr 2011, 9:24 am

JakobVirgil wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

The reason Wal-Mart is so successful is that it sells inexpensive stuff. It can sell at a low price because it keeps its labor costs down and buys its stock at a good price. It is successful because lots of people seeking low price goods go to Wal-Mart and buy from them. So Wal-Mart is successful because its customers make it successful. They get their money by selling at a profit, not by collecting government subsidies funded by money stolen from the tax payers.

ruveyn

You miss that under-paying their employees is also a part of the model with them even putting up posters on how their employees can apply for food stamps.

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25 Apr 2011, 9:42 am

ruveyn wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

walmarts business model is based on tax-holidays, Eminent domain, and using civic monies to build its giant boxes.
nothing a free-market proponent should defend.

here is a website dedicated to tracking walmart subsidies.
LINK
it gives hundreds of examples.

also if walmart is a rational maximizer why wouldn't they take as much govenment money
as they could get?

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skafather84
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25 Apr 2011, 9:44 am

JakobVirgil wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

walmarts business model is based on tax-holidays, Eminent domain, and using civic monies to build its giant boxes.
nothing a free-market proponent should defend.

Because the objectivist wants the rational maximizer to not involve itself with government because government subsidies isn't rational in the objectivist's mind (aka, BIAS).

JakobVirgil
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25 Apr 2011, 10:12 am

skafather84 wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

walmarts business model is based on tax-holidays, Eminent domain, and using civic monies to build its giant boxes.
nothing a free-market proponent should defend.

Because the objectivist wants the rational maximizer to not involve itself with government because government subsidies isn't rational in the objectivist's mind (aka, BIAS).

ruyven is not an objectivist.
he is a rationalist and pro-market but he is not an idiot.
I think he is a disciple of Hillel.
a cranky but ethical person.

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skafather84
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25 Apr 2011, 10:43 am

JakobVirgil wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

walmarts business model is based on tax-holidays, Eminent domain, and using civic monies to build its giant boxes.
nothing a free-market proponent should defend.

Because the objectivist wants the rational maximizer to not involve itself with government because government subsidies isn't rational in the objectivist's mind (aka, BIAS).

ruyven is not an objectivist.
he is a rationalist and pro-market but he is not an idiot.
I think he is a disciple of Hillel.
a cranky but ethical person.

He's already made clear here previously that he doesn't believe in ethics beyond what serves him and him alone.

leejosepho
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25 Apr 2011, 10:50 am

skafather84 wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

I think he is a disciple of Hillel.
a cranky but ethical person.

He's already made clear here previously that he doesn't believe in ethics beyond what serves him and him alone.

Yes, and yet it seems to serve him well to show respect even for other "crankies" who can at least be objective!

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ruveyn
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25 Apr 2011, 11:26 am

skafather84 wrote:

He's already made clear here previously that he doesn't believe in ethics beyond what serves him and him alone.

Not so. One cannot be completely selfish and prosper in a society. I support society to the extent that it makes my liberty (and that of my family) possible. That is why I am not an anarchist.

Hillel said:

If I am not for myself, then who is for me.
If I am -only- for myself then what am I
If not now, then when.

Perke Avot Chap I saying 15

Hillel teaches that we must balance our selfish interests with our existence in the social order.

I believe in acting now.

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25 Apr 2011, 11:29 am

Master_Pedant wrote:

Bethie wrote:

They didn't create this situation, they just exploited it, and rather effectively.

If you want to hate WAL-Mart, hate the millions who shop there to the tune of billions annually.

Does rational ignorance mean nothing to you? Furthermore, given that Walmart has already exploited its monosponsy and monopoly power be the primary seller in many markets, has exploited sales tax laws quite substantially, is (like many megacorps) a recpient of generous corporate welfare, and has already displaced many businesses, that is easier said than done. People aren't atoms and can't suddenly or individually change the structure of the retail market overnight.

My fellow economist, Tesco over here is starting to get out of hand. There now the 3rd biggest supermarket company in the world so keep an on eye on there business activities. In the UK supermarket market there the biggest of the big 5 supermarkets, Walmart is a member of the big 5 after taking over Asda a while back. A key issue of the UK's supermarket industry are the price wars, weakling of small business & there explotation of the supply chain.

ruveyn
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25 Apr 2011, 11:35 am

JakobVirgil wrote:

A tax break is NOT a direct subsidy. A direct subsidy is a payment by government to a private party.

We should all have Tax Breaks. Preferably permanent ones.

Thousands of businesses receive tax breaks to encourage their expansion and the hiring of people.

Now sir, would you like to see Wal-Mart go out of business. If this is so, what do you propose doing with the tens of thousands of people put out of work?

apparently you do not know the difference between money no paid to the government and money that is received from the government (which is stolen from tax payers).

ruveyn

psychohist
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25 Apr 2011, 1:06 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:

walmarts business model is based on tax-holidays, Eminent domain, and using civic monies to build its giant boxes.
nothing a free-market proponent should defend.

I'm also interested in any actual documented cases with respect to eminent domain. I think the idea of using public takings for private development is repugnant, but in a web search, I can't find any cases of a Walmart being built on such land, while I do find one case of a city trying to take land away from Walmart.

I agree that pressuring people into making their purchases on particular days through tax holidays is stupid, but I don't see that as a subsidy to Walmart specifically as tax holidays affect all businesses.

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25 Apr 2011, 2:58 pm

ruveyn wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

When a walmart opens they receive tax holidays the local mom and pops do not.
this is not a level playing field it is government intervention.
if walmart went belly up. (from my lips to gods ear).
People would still need their chinese chotchkies small business would spring up to supply them.
People would still need groceries (there are already stores for that I think)
the chotchkie store folks and the neighborhood grocers would have to hire folks.
... problem solved . :lol:

they also get land grants please what did we do before walmart?

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We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/

ruveyn
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25 Apr 2011, 3:01 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:

When a walmart opens they receive tax holidays the local mom and pops do not.

That is the doing of the local government. Unless bribery can be proved, blame the government, not Wal-Mart.

ruveyn

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