Atheists - prove it.

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I've yet to see Him do anything other than try to convince us he doesn't exist.



I don't think people should looking for a infallible knowledge source should look to Science. People who want to have a roof over their head, food in their stomachs or battery in their laptops might want to consider bowing to the power of empirical thought.

God working isn't directly observable, and can't be falsified.

The really bizarre part of this conversation is that we're only able to have it because of science.

Hardly anybody really understands what happens when electrons pass through a transistor, but transistors keep right on working all around us. Because of science.

I provided a logical argument. Follow my logical argument.

Also "sovereign" has nothing to do with good or bad.

"The really bizarre part of this conversation is that we're only able to have it because of science."

It is only because of God any conversation is possible.

Science is possible only bacause f God.

Anyhoww, what is with bizarre? We have heard that said before. It is only reasonable if someone is claiming science is useless.

Which nobody here seems to have said.

Science is very useful.

So is carbon.

It is only because of carbon we are able to have this conversation.

So what is oxygen, chopped liver?

Less knee jerk and more thoughtful points, please. We all - or most - enjoy the latter.

Sovereign has EVERYTHING to do with good or bad. Sovereign sets the standards foir good and bad.

When you are sovereign in the universe, you can set up humanity - if there is one - as YOU please.

Ah, to live in a universe with an Awesomely Glorious Sovereign God!

Sovereignty lets the entity decide the matter and leaves us with nothing but mere opinion (if we arrogantly insist) as to whether its world even is good or bad.

Actually, you would be better off pointing out that the God of Abraham does not make any pretention of being infinitely good or infinitely wise. He is in fact a very human and fallible character. He makes mistakes and learns from them, like all of us do. He gets angry and does something rash once in a while, but he repents and makes amends.

The presence of evil in the world, then, would just follow suit.

Just this once:

With all due homage to the many doctrines of inspiration [and THAT is a week of impassioned discussion], the respresentation of God in the Pentateuch is couched in human language and compressed [not only by millennia of transmission] to be nearly comprehensible to humanity.

If Number 1 Son at age 6 drew a picture of me [I do not think he did, dinosaurs were more interesting] it would be be a closer match to the 3-dimensional me than even the most sophisticated theology can be to the reality of the God of Abraham.

You make a really great point there, and I had completely missed its bit of simple logic! God has "sovereignly decided" (or has "declared") what is good and what is evil, but his sovereignty is not dependent upon anything else.


I have difficulty with "very human and fallible" there, but I do hear what you are saying.

That observation is wrong in my experience.

It can take a woman 2 minutes to orgasm, or a man 20 minutes. Or, it can take them both as long as they choose if they are concerned with each others needs and pleasure. Those sort of concerns often arise from 'lov[e](ing) one another'.

blauSamstag:


Hey, I tried being a christian. Did you ever try being an atheist?

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I never tried. I naturally WAS an atheist.

Then MOST unsought I was rewritten as a Christian.

But maybe you mean you experienced being a Christian? or did you actually try? And if so why?

Sincere requests for info.

If you look around the threads on this board, I also stated the Koran was an act of plagiarism. I denounced the religious violence in Sri Lanka (although some may disagree with that) and other non-Christian religious acts. It is not just Christianity I am against.

I would like to respond to your post, but first you must prove your branch of Christianity is correct and better than all the other ones (since they are sometimes much different from yours, to the point of committing violence against each other for their differences), including non-Christian ones. Why does YOUR God exist, but the others do not?

Last edited by HerrGrimm on 08 May 2011, 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I grew up in a very religious family and had experiences that, at the time, were very spiritual.

In retrospect, I think i engaged in a lot of magical thinking in an effort to fit in.

Okay, blauSamstag, that helps.

One step nearer knowing who you are. Almost diametrically opposite my experience - but quite similar to my early years trying to fit in with a fanatical transformational linguistics establishment.

1) I have no beliefs as you would describe them. You assume that the belief in the 'non-belief' is the fundamental characteristic but in truth I don't really care. Rejecting the supernatural does not define me, it is just something that makes complete sense to me. The values I have are probably not dissimilar to yours other than the fact that I don't consider divine inspiration in the equation of my actions or life
2) I have been a lifelong Atheist, it was later in my life that religion was (attempted) introduced to me in a meaningful manner, and I found it uninteresting and pointless

Last edited by Vigilans on 08 May 2011, 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Complex arguments, yes. Well thought out arguments, not so much. The new atheists are definitely still in the phase where they think they know everything only because they haven't figured out how much they don't know yet.