Is it morally wrong to not support the troops?

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well?
Yes, it's ungrateful and cowardly. Shame! 36%  36%  [ 8 ]
No, they are contributing to war. We shouldn't support them. 64%  64%  [ 14 ]
Total votes : 22

TheKing
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04 Jun 2011, 12:05 am

Barrett wrote:
Hmmm..... Hitler had already had Gemrany mostly unified when came to power in 1933 except for Austria, the Sudetenland, and the assorted random fringe territories that had been hacked off to Poland + border adjustments with France, Belgiam, Denmark. It was his task to redeem Germany's honor that had been sort of lost in WWI and at least get the old borders back and the old eastern territories from the 'inferior' and hated slavs and Poles.

Hitler's task was as much as well to rebuild the German army and restore independence from the prison of the Versailles treaty and interference from England and France in German affairs. Tasks like reoccupying the Rhineland and rearmament while avoiding war over those causes were a tall order.

The Soviet Union was every bit as bad as Nazi Germany, but the atrociites of Stalin were more hidden and 'outofsight-outofmind' from the western view. Atrociites against groups like Jews and British airmen drew more flak than Stalin's atroiciites against people like Armenians and what-not who were well hidden deep in the Soviet Union.

Probably the prejudice and bias today that I think still exists of Western people having 'more value' in the eyes of people who matter in the Anglosphere world might have something to do with it. All of the Ukraninas, Belorussians, and the others are "just statistics," while Jews and western white people have a huge prominence and a level of common public identification with them.



most estimations put Stalin's bodycount at nearly 40 million BEFORE WWII and even though he was the good guy he had a higher death count than Hitler's total(estimated at roughly 20 million) before the war even started i believe estimates put Stalin's total body count at around 60 million(he is considered to be the worlds biggest mass murderer) and yet he was the Good Guy during the war, i see something very morally wrong with that


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Barrett
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04 Jun 2011, 12:26 am

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04 Jun 2011, 12:30 am

donnie_darko wrote:
Back in the 60s and 70s, being against the war meant you were against the troops as well. While i condemn spitting in their faces, insulting them, etc, I can't say i support the troops. I don't hate them or anything, most of them are just trying to get into college or believe they are fighting for the greater good, but the truth is they're not.

IMO if you support the troops to some extent you must support the war. Saying you support them and idolize them but then saying you are against the war makes no sense. I think it's just become politically incorrect to say you're anti-military these days. People see it as insulting to the troop's families or whatever. Frankly i think it's driven mostly by successful Reagan-era hawkish propaganda.

I support the troops as far as not wanting them to die in pointless wars, but that's where my support ends basically.

"What if there was a war and nobody showed up?"

If you thought that the troops are doing immoral acts, then it would be morally wrong to support them.

Contrary to what people would think, morality is up to you to decide, not the rest of the people.


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04 Jun 2011, 1:12 am

Barrett wrote:

Probably the prejudice and bias today that I think still exists of Western people having 'more value' in the eyes of people who matter in the Anglosphere world might have something to do with it. All of the Ukraninas, Belorussians, and the others are "just statistics," while Jews and western white people have a huge prominence and a level of common public identification with them.


yeah i kinda wonder if it's because Ashkenazi Jews are very much considered 'white people' while Armenians, Kazakhs, Kalmyks, etc are more 'exotic' and far off and thus Americans and other Westerners might sympathize less?



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04 Jun 2011, 1:48 am

Support as in what?
To me troop support means your supporting the them as fellow Americans (or allies) who are deployed in the theater of operations, regardless off your views on the legitimacy of the war.

During the Bush administration we had (still have) an individual at work who rabidly despised George Bush for the war and claimed that the deaths of every American serviceman was on his hands.

All this "concern" for them but twice when we we took up collections to provide a platoon of Marines or US Army soldiers with Christmas dinner via Treats for Troops we could not squeeze a goddamn dime out of him although some of us pitched in $150 or $200 or more!

One year we all put together care packages for the infantry squad of a young Marine who's mother works in one of our departments. Again, nothing from our concerned citizen.

He always had money to take trips to the French Riviera and London to see his American hating (and thats what they were) friends and relatives but nothing for those guys over in Iraq or Afghanistan living out of their back packs in a hostile environment.
Of course, since his buddy Barack has been in office no one has heard a word of concern for the troops from him yet they are still over there.

It makes me want to kick him in right in the nuts but I doubt he has anything down there worth kicking.

Just my usual humble thoughts..........



91
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04 Jun 2011, 2:00 am

The troops who came home from Vietnam were treaded in a most despicable way. The 'support our troops' mentality is a correction to this, it does not mean 'support the war' or even 'support all troops' or 'the troops are above criticism'. People here are reading too much into the line and not enough into the sentiment. Put simply, the Americans and Australians too (we treated our Vietnam vets abysmally also), are intent on making sure the soldiers NEVER get treated like that again. If you think there is no prejudice remaining, you have not been on a university campus in uniform.


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04 Jun 2011, 3:08 am

91 wrote:
The troops who came home from Vietnam were treaded in a most despicable way. The 'support our troops' mentality is a correction to this, it does not mean 'support the war' or even 'support all troops' or 'the troops are above criticism'. People here are reading too much into the line and not enough into the sentiment. Put simply, the Americans and Australians too (we treated our Vietnam vets abysmally also), are intent on making sure the soldiers NEVER get treated like that again. If you think there is no prejudice remaining, you have not been on a university campus in uniform.


That's dead-on about what the "support the troops" movement has been about.



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04 Jun 2011, 7:43 am

I think it's morally wrong to market the military to children without their parents' consent.
Public schools do this all the time, calling soldiers "heroes" (which is an opinion not a fact) and having children write them letters, etc. I don't think this is at all appropriate, especially for elementary students.
Usually these activities are called "supporting our troops". I call it "indoctrination".



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04 Jun 2011, 9:52 am

YippySkippy wrote:
I think it's morally wrong to market the military to children without their parents' consent.
Public schools do this all the time, calling soldiers "heroes" (which is an opinion not a fact) and having children write them letters, etc. I don't think this is at all appropriate, especially for elementary students.
Usually these activities are called "supporting our troops". I call it "indoctrination".


Then by that same logic they should not be asked to support anything at all outside of regular school studies without tier parents consent.



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04 Jun 2011, 10:23 am

I not only support the troops I wanted to be one of them. Alas, I was rejected because I had bronchial asthma. If my lungs worked right I could have been a hired killer for Uncle Sam (darn!) One has not fully lived until he has shed blood and destroyed cities.

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04 Jun 2011, 10:26 am

Raptor wrote:
Support as in what?
To me troop support means your supporting the them as fellow Americans (or allies) who are deployed in the theater of operations, regardless off your views on the legitimacy of the war.

During the Bush administration we had (still have) an individual at work who rabidly despised George Bush for the war and claimed that the deaths of every American serviceman was on his hands.

All this "concern" for them but twice when we we took up collections to provide a platoon of Marines or US Army soldiers with Christmas dinner via Treats for Troops we could not squeeze a goddamn dime out of him although some of us pitched in $150 or $200 or more!

One year we all put together care packages for the infantry squad of a young Marine who's mother works in one of our departments. Again, nothing from our concerned citizen.

He always had money to take trips to the French Riviera and London to see his American hating (and thats what they were) friends and relatives but nothing for those guys over in Iraq or Afghanistan living out of their back packs in a hostile environment.
Of course, since his buddy Barack has been in office no one has heard a word of concern for the troops from him yet they are still over there.

It makes me want to kick him in right in the nuts but I doubt he has anything down there worth kicking.

Just my usual humble thoughts..........


wah wah is the conservative crying? :roll:
the "troops" do nothing to protect our safety not one thing they are dupes and morons at best.
cowards and willful killers at worst
It not an honorable profession to be a mercenary for any state.
Vietnam vets were at least drafted.
Why should I give money to the family of some moron who abandoned them "cuz the gobernmit told him to"
Big government is bad and the worst part of it is in Uniform.


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04 Jun 2011, 10:46 am

Troops don't pick the war and not everyone gets a WWII. Even some of the people who signed up over 9/11 ended up going to Iraq instead.

I don't have any great respect for most of the individual servicemen. Many are rural or urban kids looking for a better life or an adventure and not motivated in any way by larger issues. They are practical people trying to do what they can. That said, we need them there and there is nothing wrong with celebrating them to encourage more of them to join.

If you want to pretend the world isnt a dangerous place, well, good luck with that.



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04 Jun 2011, 10:57 am

simon_says wrote:
Troops don't pick the war and not everyone gets a WWII. Even some of the people who signed up over 9/11 ended up going to Iraq instead.

I don't have any great respect for most of the individual servicemen. Many are rural or urban kids looking for a better life or an adventure and not motivated in any way by larger issues. They are practical people trying to do what they can. That said, we need them there and there is nothing wrong with celebrating them to encourage more of them to join.

If you want to pretend the world isnt a dangerous place, well, good luck with that.


The is dangerous because of Boy Scouts with machine guns not despite them.
there is something dangerously wrong with getting more of them to join.
because what armies do does not help a damn thing.
italics on the strawman.


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04 Jun 2011, 11:44 am

MDD123 wrote:
91 wrote:
The troops who came home from Vietnam were treaded in a most despicable way. The 'support our troops' mentality is a correction to this, it does not mean 'support the war' or even 'support all troops' or 'the troops are above criticism'. People here are reading too much into the line and not enough into the sentiment. Put simply, the Americans and Australians too (we treated our Vietnam vets abysmally also), are intent on making sure the soldiers NEVER get treated like that again. If you think there is no prejudice remaining, you have not been on a university campus in uniform.


That's dead-on about what the "support the troops" movement has been about.


Yes.
Our service people face death. But they didnt make the foriegn policy.
The politicians made the foriegn policy but they dont face death.

So if you dont like the foriegn policy then direct your ire at the politicians not at the soldiers.



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04 Jun 2011, 12:17 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Support as in what?
To me troop support means your supporting the them as fellow Americans (or allies) who are deployed in the theater of operations, regardless off your views on the legitimacy of the war.

During the Bush administration we had (still have) an individual at work who rabidly despised George Bush for the war and claimed that the deaths of every American serviceman was on his hands.

All this "concern" for them but twice when we we took up collections to provide a platoon of Marines or US Army soldiers with Christmas dinner via Treats for Troops we could not squeeze a goddamn dime out of him although some of us pitched in $150 or $200 or more!

One year we all put together care packages for the infantry squad of a young Marine who's mother works in one of our departments. Again, nothing from our concerned citizen.

He always had money to take trips to the French Riviera and London to see his American hating (and thats what they were) friends and relatives but nothing for those guys over in Iraq or Afghanistan living out of their back packs in a hostile environment.
Of course, since his buddy Barack has been in office no one has heard a word of concern for the troops from him yet they are still over there.

It makes me want to kick him in right in the nuts but I doubt he has anything down there worth kicking.

Just my usual humble thoughts..........


wah wah is the conservative crying? :roll:
the "troops" do nothing to protect our safety not one thing they are dupes and morons at best.
cowards and willful killers at worst
It not an honorable profession to be a mercenary for any state.
Vietnam vets were at least drafted.
Why should I give money to the family of some moron who abandoned them "cuz the gobernmit told him to"
Big government is bad and the worst part of it is in Uniform.


Sorry but I'm not a crier, never have been.
I guess I've struck a nerve and the individual I've described above is just like you in principal (or lack of principal).
I can't tell if your response is just a vulgar insult to everyone that has worn their country's uniform or just a sad testament to your cluelessness.
Are you saying that the U.S. military has no and has never had a legitimate use or is it just as it applies to recent times????
Well, lets just assume that you are an American (correct me if I'm wrong and I hope I am) and you are talking about the U.S. military and it doesn't matter whether it's today's military or that of the American Revolution.
The purpose of it is primarily to protect the United States and to a lesser degree it's interests abroad. If you do not believe that our nation is worthy of protection then I don't know why you live here.
If you have an issue with the current operations in Afghanistan and Iraq then that's a matter to take up with your elected representatives since they started it and are continuing it. The military is a tool of their policies, right or wrong, and cannot accept the blame for what objectives are assigned to them by those politicians.
I could talk about honor, sacrifice, bravery, and selflessness but I doubt you have a clue as to what they mean or a care in the world to ever know. I'd be better off talking to my dog about it.
I have other things I want to do today besides this.



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04 Jun 2011, 12:18 pm

HerrGrimm wrote:
Hitler was VASTLY incompetent. But there were negotiations between Germany and Mexico around the time of Pearl Harbor, but the Japanese screwed up the declaration and our Southern neighbor got cold feet.

No, pacifism would not have stopped WW2, not in the least. Germany and Japan never thought about that.

Isn't it Axis history to deny the Holocaust?

You can support troops but not support a war. They were taken there by politicians, not of their own free will.


You can't say for sure that such a thing would not have stopped WW2, I mean there where germans during the Nazi rule that did resist and tried to get information out so others would stop supporting them. It was not totally sucessful but no not all the germans where going along with it.