Racism by degree

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I love Philologos today Parsing things out and really looking at stuff from all angles.

It is sexist to always frame this in terms of "daughter marry" and there are other reasons besides race/ethnicity to disapprove of somebody.

Philologos going for the nuance

It's an effort to address ongoing systemic racism. It wouldn't be necessary if racism didn't exist. It's not a matter of giving anybody something they didn't earn, because they were deprived of it at some point in the past. The issue is that people should not be denied the right to earn what they are capable of based on their racial makeup.

Now, now. I open mouth in the interests of fairness. The statement "The policy is about hiring someone on the basis of their skin colour alone rather than their qualifications." is a commonly held and frequently view among those who - like me - have never hired or selected or rejected or been hired or selected or rejected under affirmative action policies. Even when I was head of department it never came up.

Stupidity is therefore not necessarily called for; you can of course go for "uncritical". Also, the fact that Aceof Spades is a "person of colour" - as opposed to color - hints he MIGHT be unamerican [gender in profile, ethnicity not]. Which means he may not be familiar with our affirmative action policies, and that the affirmative action of wherever he may be, if any, may wewll be substantially different.

It's blatantly ignorant, and prejudicial. Affirmative action means you can't deny qualified applicants based on their skin color. It doesn't mean you have to hire somebody unqualified based on their skin color. I'm just not going to accept fantastical levels of ignorance and depravity as an excuse on this one.


I agree. This stupidity was totally uncalled for. Whatever the cause of his ignorance, it should not have been a basis for attacking me. He is clearly wrong here on many levels.

It's somewhat OT but I have always wondered about the situations where literally just exactly that happens. From time to time I see newspaper stories about various men who have been freed from prison after years of imprisonment when modern DNA analysis exonerates them. Do they just get tossed into the job market to fend for themselves after all those years in prison? That's a situation where affirmative action (of a sort) should be mandatory. It would be utterly immoral to say, "sorry about those 15 years in jail. Have a nice life." I always hoped the government doesn't just shrug and say "mistakes happen" and turn their back on the poor fellow when he needs assisstance and is truly owed assisstance. But the newspaper stories only repeat that so-and-so was freed so I never know what happens next.

It is also worth pointing out that in every single one of those stories that I've seen, the man is black. Is this my conformation bias and I forgot about white men freed this way? I don't know (and don't want to devote lots of time to google finding out). But if not, it sort of makes the affirmative action point in a really dramatic way.

Edited to add: ok I did google. It was my confirmation bias making me think it was just black men. (Or whatever the bias is called when an astounding example of something makes you forget about the less astounding but still real counter examples.) The most recent and dramatic case (35 years!! !! !) was a black man and I just forgot everyone else. I also found a group that helps exonerated former prisoners but it is a charity and not a government agency. For shame!

http://www.exonerated.org/content/

According to their website, the government really does just shrug and walk away. I hope everybody who is against affirmative action as a general rule can make an exception for affirmative action for people who have been screwed on a scale that truly boggles the mind.

Last edited by Janissy on 10 Jun 2011, 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ah yes, the "two wrongs make a right" school of affirmative action.

It's better than the "they can't make it on their own" justification, but it's still racist. It just argues that being racist in one direction justifies being racist in another direction later on.

Actually we don't know that Africans have no neanderthal DNA; we just know that they have less than do nonafricans. That of course only further supports your point about the blurriness of the lines.


False imprisonment is not a situation that calls for affirmative action; it's a situation that calls for compensation.

Both are straw men. Blatant idiocy abounds. It is justified because white people discriminate against minorities. It's a well known fact. Denying it is in effect perpetuating the systemic racism. You are functionally a racist, if not psychologically and emotionally. Please stop being so racist. Thank.s

the problem with compensation fopr 15 years of wrongfull imprinoment is that almost no matter what it would be too little to seem fair.
some of those people have lost their very reason to live, their families, their future, anything they hold dear, i imagine even becoming a millionaire would seem empty after that.

it should have immediate consequences for the people involved in the imprisonment, an inquiry at least.

Affirmative action is not an anti-discrimination law. It is a quota and a lowered standard of entry. Fighting institutional racism with institutional racism is fighting fire with fire.

...And I thought I was dishonest. Yeah put me in my place . The perception of racism is highly subjective, so labeling it as a fact is not only arrogant but dishonest. Stop being so self-righteous, please and thank you. Functionally racist hahaha what a joke. Nice loaded proposition you got there.

Last edited by AceOfSpades on 10 Jun 2011, 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I guess the only way society is truly going to get rid of racism is by getting rid of white people. Don't you agree?

He didn't say that at all, so good job at putting up an actual straw man.

Sorry to disrupt your fascinating debate.
I will leave you tweedledee and tweedledum liberals to it.

No, just racists.

I'm a liberal? Me? Hahaha you've just made my day. You must have a poor sense of direction cuz I'm on the right side of the spectrum.

I'm done arguing with stupid, vile, ignorant, dishonest racists for one day. I've had my fill. You guys go ahead and have a field day.