Your political opinions on abortion and capital punishment

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Human Genome or Human Person. A zygote is not a person so it does not have the rights one would normally attribute to a person. A zygote is the property of its female host.

ruveyn

OK, well I'm not 'truly' anti-abortion then. I'm a pragmatist. I don't believe someone should have to go through the ordeal of something they never asked for if they were raped, or if pregnancy would kill the mother.

So, if we rape this girl, she is forced to go through her destined "caretaker" role no matter what she thinks about it.

But she is not a slave.






It is not a human.


Since when is the government supposed to protect people about feeling guilty?

Why is it nobody counts the amount of mothers that go to therapy?



Our culture doesn't give a damn about non-humans. Ok, maybe if they are fuzzy and have wide eyes some would care, a little-. But we are completely fine with you poisoning rats. Or stomping flies.

Note that most abortion proponents would be fine if it was allowed only in the first months. In the first months the thing hasn't even developed a brain. It is not even as advanced as a chicken. And we love killing chicken.



* They are unborn.
* Part of another person's closed system.
* We are pretty sure the early ones can't actually discern for themselves or make decisions.

When it comes to having no human mind at all vs. having a human mind. Yes.


ret*ds have been born and have an actual working mind.


Born: Infant.
Unborn: fetus.


Well duh.


I don't think it is my business. Let the mother decide.

Don't call it a baby, it is a fetus.


Sperm have human DNA. The world is all fine with us killing millions of them daily.

Last edited by Vexcalibur on 30 Jul 2011, 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

It is a human being!
Is not!
Is too!
Is not!
Is too!

HERP DERP DERP HERP DERP

Don't rape the girl. And I don't think carrying something for 9 months in your body is mortal torture. It isn't even much of a "destined caretaker role". No one's asking her to mother the child until it's 18. Just don't kill it.

I'm not saying the government should provide free therapy or anything. I'm saying that the fact that it is emotionally traumatic to the woman getting the abortion is an indicator that there's something wrong about getting an abortion in the first place.



But it will develop a brain very soon.

Unborn, but very much alive.
It isn't an organ though. It's being supported by the person's system. Not actually part of it.
Pretty sure? What if you're wrong? And I will say again, do you think people being unable to think for themselves is a reason to kill them? There was a man pronounced brain dead for quite some time, and his family gave the OK to harvest his organs. He came around shortly after, and is fine now.



I think you don't want to have to think about it. Is there really a difference between the baby a week before it is born, and as soon as it comes out? When does location dictate whether or not someone is a person? Maybe it's okay as long as you don't see the baby's face before you kill it...

Also,
Sperm are gametes, they have incomplete DNA. I have a problem when it becomes a zygote. It will irreversibly become a human unless it dies first.

It may not be mortal torture, but it should at least be horribly uncomfortable.

So, you call control over the girl's body as you decide what stays there for 9 months. And you are not even paying the girl for doing her "job" as a host for the thing that will suck her nutrients and also boost her aging process. It sounds like slave.


But who cares? We do not make killing potential human beings illegal. Else killing sperm would be considered genocide.




They may become human as long as the host is willing to accept them. They go through many tests (there are always many miscarriages) and at the end they don't die while being born.

Sperm may become human as long as it doesn't die before entering an egg. The host is willing to accept the egg. They go through many tests (there are always many miscarriages) and at the end they don't die while being born.

Skin cells have human DNA, we don't freakout about dardruff. Even the egg, really, is just that, a cell with human DNA. I can claim with certainty that something that doesn't have a brain is not human. And even when it does, there is really no evidence that it is used.

The whole question, whether it should be legal to kill sperm, ovules, eggs, zygotes, fetuses and or babies requires an arbitrary line. You cannot avoid having to draw a line, because sperm and ovules would be rather lame to protect. If you wanted to draw a line such as "has human mind" then it is very difficult to prove anything.

The easiest line of them all is birth. But let's go with 10 weeks to make everyone happy.




One is born and the other isn't.

Coming to birth is not easy. It is a challenge to test if you are viable and wanted. If you are wanted, you may even get surgical help to come out in case of trouble. If you are unwanted, you don't have that privilege and thus you haven't passed the test.

Sorry, I know this is horribly inappropriate, but...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NZvlWcT7Gs[/youtube]

Unless of course it is the state doing the wrong, in which case it can be justified for you by rhetoric likening justice to war.

Is a month old zygote a person? I simple yes or no fill suffice.

ruveyn

Pro-life, anti-death penalty. Though I will make two exceptions. I think if a woman might die giving birth, she should be able to abort to save her life, and if a criminal is so dangerous, they must be in lifetime custody, they should be given the option of assisted suicide.

Yeah and what about the psychological damage rape can do to a woman? you really think its ok to force them to go through the entire pregnancy regardless of how tramatized and psychologically damaged they are so they can be reminded of it every day. It should be up to that woman not anyone else.

Well, I'm not commanding her to do it. I think it should be illegal. If pregnancy were truly horribly uncomfortable, I don't think so many women would endure it. Some even enjoy it. Even if they find it horribly uncomfortable, well, I think killing a human and causing them discomfort aren't really comparable to one another. Of course discomfort is the lesser of the wrongs.
It would be a sh***y situation for a woman to get raped. But just because life sucks doesn't mean you can kill people for it.

I already addressed this. Sperm cells and skin cells on their own will never become humans. Yes a zygote will face peril before it becomes a fetus, and then is finally born. But this is natural selection occurring. Abortion definitely isn't natural selection. There is no way a baby can avoid it.

And why should someone's life be completely in the hands of another human? Humans are careless, selfish, and often wrong. We shouldn't trust them to decide who gets to live and die.


Pulling an amount of time out of your ass isn't a good idea. And birth is the worst line. I would like a better answer than "One is born and one isn't." Easy doesn't equal right. A baby is definitely a thinking little human who feels pain and emotion before birth.

If abortion would be made illegal, it might also mean increase in illegal means of abortion which might lead to infection, sterility and the increased mortality among pregnant women. Children might be born handicapped due to unsuccessful abortion attempts, not to mention what happens to the unwanted children and how they're treated.

Something similar happened in Ceausescu's era in Romania with the famous Decree 770 - i.e. The 1966 law concerning prohibition of abortion in Romania. The direct consequence of the decree was a huge baby boom. Between 1966 and 1967 the number of births increased by almost 100%, and the number of children per woman increased from 1.9 to 3.7.

In the seventies, birth rates declined again. The economic need for small families remained, and people began to seek ways to circumvent the decree. Wealthier women were able to obtain contraceptives illegally, or bribed doctors to give diagnoses which made abortion possible. Especially among the less educated and poorer women there were many unwanted pregnancies. These poorer women had to look for primitive methods of abortion, which lead to various complications. The mortality among pregnant women became the highest of Europe during the reign of Ceausescu. While the childbed mortality rate kept declining over the years in neighbouring countries, in Romania it increased to more than ten times of that of its neighbours.

Relatively many children who were born in this period became malnourished or were severely physically handicapped. Many of these children ended up in care under miserable conditions. The children born in this period, especially between 1966 and 1972, are nicknamed the decretei (pejorative name). They had to put up with crowded public services as the state was not ready for the sudden increase.

I think the damage of rape has as much to do with the treatment of the people around, treating them as 'damaged goods' as it does with the rape itself. People act like rape victims are 'better off dead', I think that makes the problem even worse.

I was not saying they are better off dead, just that its kind of sick to expect a rape victim to just 'deal with it and have the baby.' that is not a realistic expectation for them and could probably do more damage depending on how much psychological damage occured. I have PTSD not from that......but yeah the best thing to do is not force the person to have to think about it every day.

it might make it worse but listen very closely to me,

i have pulled my best friend from the grasp of suicide several nights in a row, i droppped my education to do so, all because of some SOB not considering what his sick actions might do to her long term or even enjoying the fact that it will, there is some VERY real mental damage from such an action, it is one of the most dehumanizing actions i can think of.

no way does a few human cells come before the mental health of a real living conscoiusness.
is it ideal? no, is it fun? no is it neccesary? definately in these cases, they shouldnt even hear the suggestion.
anyone that says otherwise takes quite a special place in my book, you can be pro life all you want but when it comes to these cases there really is little question.
sure some might be able to have that baby but did they do it so as not to disapoint family or religion? or because she actually wants the child? if the latter go ahead, enjoy, if the former it is nothing but an act brought forth by social construct