Why don't people take UFOs and ancient astronauts seriously?

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Oodain
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02 Aug 2011, 1:21 pm

it is a recreation(one of many)

there are artifacts like it in almost all parts of the world, from water driven orrerys in asia to the baghdad battery.

brilliance will be brilliance, only the mean is increased, that's my take on it anyway.


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02 Aug 2011, 5:59 pm

Janissy wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Well I have a few reasons for taking such things seriously.
1. I have yet to see proof that a human or group of humans on the ground could create as elaborate of a crop circle as the pictures of them I have seen. I saw a supposed debunking thing and theirs looked like crap so that to me did not prove that something from above has to be creating them...also even if humans could do that from the ground it would be kind of hard not to be noticed in the process.

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The ones that I saw people making in a documentary were quite beautiful and intricate.

Humans make beautiful, intricate art all the time. It's what people do.


For those who didn't see the documentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW3LsGmt55M

It has an interview with the original crop circle makers. They are old men now. They were young men then. They did it for the reason young men often do pranks- because it was mildly illegal and to mess with peoples' heads. Their first crop circles were indeed crude and not very intricate. They were literally circles and little else. They did it by putting a board with a rope on the ground and using it to stomp the wheat flat and using the rope affixed to a center spike to keep the circle even. They were delighted at the response and made more and kept it a secret for years.

The new generation of crop circle makers use computers to design the very intricate circles. They work only at night and must stay on the move to not only evade farmers who are furious at the continued crop destruction but also crop circle devotees. The crop circle devotees hate the crop circle makers (and are well aware they exist) and claim that they are trying to take cerdit for the superior design of the "real" crop circles. The crop circle makers say, "nope, we did those too". One group of crop circle makers say they were once caught by crop circle devotees in the middle of making a circle and had mud and rotten fruit thrown at them and had to abort the mission.

The most common criticism is that nobody could make a crop circle so intricate in one night. The documentary films in time lapse a very intricate crop circle being made (with a farmer's permission) in 5 hours. They made a 5 hour cap since that is the time you'd have roughly on a summer's night. They did it. Watch the documentary I linked.

One of the current crop circle artists is a curious blend of "the aliens did it" and "humans did it". He is well aware that he is making crop circles with a board and rope and centering spikes. But he also says that he meditates to get the designs and that "alien spirits" tell him what the design should look like. He wouldn't be the first artist to recieve artistic intructions from the voices in his head.


WelL I will look into that, but still why can they not prove without a doubt that humans are responsible for ALL of them, also some of those designs are so intricate there is really no way to do that from the ground. And it would help if the debunking thing I saw was not so horribly done......I felt like my intelligence was being insulted when I saw that.



Sweetleaf
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02 Aug 2011, 6:01 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.


What is so extrodinary about life existing outside of earth, or the idea that beings from other planets have possibly been here......there is no absolute proof either way.



ruveyn
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02 Aug 2011, 8:46 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.


What is so extrodinary about life existing outside of earth, or the idea that beings from other planets have possibly been here......there is no absolute proof either way.


That is right. Which is why we can safely ignore theories about E.T. visitations until such time as we have some solid evidence that cannot be interpreted some other way.

ruveyn



Philologos
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02 Aug 2011, 9:04 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.


What is so extrodinary about life existing outside of earth, or the idea that beings from other planets have possibly been here......there is no absolute proof either way.


Alls it is is a snazzy way of saying what we don't already know we are inclined to doubt.



Sweetleaf
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02 Aug 2011, 9:27 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.


What is so extrodinary about life existing outside of earth, or the idea that beings from other planets have possibly been here......there is no absolute proof either way.


That is right. Which is why we can safely ignore theories about E.T. visitations until such time as we have some solid evidence that cannot be interpreted some other way.

ruveyn


You can, but I a not going to disbelieve in it until there is solid evidence that disproves it...besides I think it is ridiculous to assume this is the only planet with life. It might be the only one we know of but the universe is pretty large.



Fnord
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02 Aug 2011, 9:48 pm

^ Another Argument From Incredulity.

Just because you believe in something, or believe that the lack of that something is impossible, the mere belief does not make it so.

Even if extraterrestrial life exists, this "fact" alone is insufficient evidence that even one unidentifiable object flying in the sky is of extraterrestrial origin.


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02 Aug 2011, 9:51 pm

UFO is UNIDENTIFIED.

Wait for VEFO [verified extraterrestrial flying object]



Sweetleaf
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02 Aug 2011, 9:51 pm

Fnord wrote:
^ Another Argument From Incredulity.

Just because you believe in something, or believe that the lack of that something is impossible, the mere belief does not make it so.

Even if extraterrestrial life exists, this "fact" alone is insufficient evidence that even one unidentifiable object flying in the sky is of extraterrestrial origin.


Well there is no absolute proof either way.....so both opionons are based on insufficient evidence.



techstepgenr8tion
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02 Aug 2011, 9:53 pm

It seems like the objective with everything that's deemed taboo, occult, or inconclusive is to jump up and down trying to stop out superstitious belief like its a burning bag of dogs--- that got dropped through the mail hatch, then try to take it back in bit by bit when there's no charlatanism left to blur it.

Its not that things like this are necessarily untrue, just that its been so nebulous for so many people and disproven so often that people are even skeptical of what they can't explain (much like psychic ability, faith healing etc.). Obviously for right or wrong, no one knows for sure perhaps aside from those who at least firmly believe that they've experienced these things.


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02 Aug 2011, 10:13 pm

Some people will always kick the golden plate when it's offered. The items ontop didn't taste very good, after all.

Do my metaphors bug people? :)



Fnord
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03 Aug 2011, 4:12 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Fnord wrote:
^ Another Argument From Incredulity.

Just because you believe in something, or believe that the lack of that something is impossible, the mere belief does not make it so.

Even if extraterrestrial life exists, this "fact" alone is insufficient evidence that even one unidentifiable object flying in the sky is of extraterrestrial origin.

Well there is no absolute proof either way.....so both opionons are based on insufficient evidence.

Those who make the positive claim are bound to providing proof of their claim, but because there is absence of evidence, there is sufficient cause for reasonable doubt of that claim. Therefor, it is more reasonable to doubt UFOs being of extraterrestrial origin than being from Earth.


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ruveyn
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03 Aug 2011, 4:51 am

Fnord wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Fnord wrote:
^ Another Argument From Incredulity.

Just because you believe in something, or believe that the lack of that something is impossible, the mere belief does not make it so.

Even if extraterrestrial life exists, this "fact" alone is insufficient evidence that even one unidentifiable object flying in the sky is of extraterrestrial origin.

Well there is no absolute proof either way.....so both opionons are based on insufficient evidence.

Those who make the positive claim are bound to providing proof of their claim, but because there is absence of evidence, there is sufficient cause for reasonable doubt of that claim. Therefor, it is more reasonable to doubt UFOs being of extraterrestrial origin than being from Earth.


That is it precisely. All those people who equate UFOs with Alien Spacecraft have yet to produce a single artifact that is clearly not of earthly origin. And I don't mean velcro (tm) either.

ruveyn



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03 Aug 2011, 9:19 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.


What is so extrodinary about life existing outside of earth,

UFOs are the claim that extraterrestrials are visiting us furtively.

There is most likely life outside earth. But furtive visitors kidnapping people and being very hard to photograph are an extraordinary claim.


Quote:
or the idea that beings from other planets have possibly been here......

"Beings from other planets have been here" is a much weaker claim than "Enslaved us and are the inspiration for all our mythology".

Quote:
there is no absolute proof either way.



The idea of alien life managing to visit us is actually very extraordinary. They would either have to be VERY old civilizations or to have come up with a way to travel "faster than light" (teleportation, or whatever) that would defy our current concepts.

We need to make the simplest theory that fits the evidence, else we would go nuts.


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03 Aug 2011, 9:27 am

Vexcalibur wrote:
e
We need to make the simplest theory that fits the evidence, else we would go nuts.


Sorry - normally I do not prod your posts unless there is something srriously off, which is not, I think, the case here, but I cannot help myself:

Looking at the world as we see it, are you sure the SIMPLEST theory is not that we ARE nuts?



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03 Aug 2011, 9:41 am

Because they are stupid fringe cult beliefs that deserve to be laughed at.