Israel?

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MudandStars
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10 Oct 2011, 4:10 am

ruveyn wrote:

You grasp of history is faulty. Jews -purchased- a piece of Palestine from the Ottoman Turkish Empire, prior to WW1. The Ottoman Empire was the de jure owner of the territory and the purchase (in gold, by the way) was legal under Ottoman law. This land was award to its Jewish -owners- by the U.N. in 1946.
The Palestinians made war against the partition that the U. N. ordained. What do you know, the Jews won. How dare the Jews win! That is bad. It must be wrong!

The Jews are the only people in the world that have to sue for peace after they have won a war.

ruveyn

Interesting.

Also interesting how nation states emerge and why a special case is made out of Israel.

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ruveyn
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10 Oct 2011, 7:31 am

MudandStars wrote:

Also interesting how nation states emerge and why a special case is made out of Israel.

It is because Israel is a state founded by Jews for Jews. God promised the Jews they would be a special people. Well, that sure happened!

ruveyn

JakobVirgil
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10 Oct 2011, 2:29 pm

Joker wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Scythe wrote:

:lmao:

It should be interesting. I am sure it will involve a lot of "your full of crap" in his own words. I am just stating what I have read in scripture in regards to how Israel got their land.

The only rational thing to do is ease up on Palestine and let the hornets do the work.

Hornets can really hurt you if they sting ya I got stung by one once and I found out that I am allergic to them.

I was stung on the finger and my hand swelled up like Popeye's.
Honey bees on the other hand mean a trip to the hospital.

to your signature I don't care whether I use paper or plastic bags at the grocery so I am Bi-sacksual.

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Joker
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11 Oct 2011, 12:07 am

JakobVirgil wrote:

Joker wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Scythe wrote:

:lmao:

It should be interesting. I am sure it will involve a lot of "your full of crap" in his own words. I am just stating what I have read in scripture in regards to how Israel got their land.

The only rational thing to do is ease up on Palestine and let the hornets do the work.

Hornets can really hurt you if they sting ya I got stung by one once and I found out that I am allergic to them.

HAHAHA brilliant word play cudos to you I rather enjoyed that :lol:

ruveyn
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11 Oct 2011, 5:02 am

imbatshitcrazy wrote:

do you think israel should exist

I take that question to mean: Should Jews have a state of their own. In a just world, that would not be necessary, but in the world we live in, Jews are not entirely safe living in the various nations. Perhaps a sanctuary state is in order. However carving a state out of a territory occupied by hostiles was, perhaps, not the best idea.

As things stand now, the safest place in the world for Jews to be is the United States of America.

ruveyn

visagrunt
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11 Oct 2011, 2:27 pm

If there is a state in the region whose regime I question, it would be Jordan.

To my mind, the ideal two state solution would involve Israel and a Palestine that includes all of the territory currently forming Jordan. They are, after all, the Hashemite Kingdom, and yet they have stood by refusing to take in the Palestinians in the vain hope that this would keep up the pressure on Israel.

Palestinians need a state? Well I prefer the flawed democracy of the Palestinian Authority to the autocracy of the Hashemited Kingdom. But I prefer the parliamentary democracy of Israel to both of them.

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Inuyasha
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11 Oct 2011, 5:10 pm

visagrunt wrote:

The Jordanian King has made quite a few reforms though, and you are correct about Jordan and the Palestinians, but there is more. The Palestinians are very closely related to the Jordanians.

That said, I would say Egypt would have an easier time giving up land due to the fact the Sinai (sp?) is rather sparsely populated, and the Israelis could easily help the Palestinians set up desalination plants, like they helped the Egyptians after Egypt signed the peace agreement with them.

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11 Oct 2011, 5:31 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

visagrunt wrote:

The Jordanian King has made quite a few reforms though, and you are correct about Jordan and the Palestinians, but there is more. The Palestinians are very closely related to the Jordanians.

That said, I would say Egypt would have an easier time giving up land due to the fact the Sinai (sp?) is rather sparsely populated, and the Israelis could easily help the Palestinians set up desalination plants, like they helped the Egyptians after Egypt signed the peace agreement with them.

and so are the Israelis.

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Gedrene
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12 Oct 2011, 12:36 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

visagrunt wrote:

Yes, because of course the Palestinians should be forced to move from their homeland, which has been theirs for a thousand years on account that the Jews want to live in it and take it back as their own. Please, transplant the Palestinians in to the Sinai, a hostile near-desert. This is one step from ethnic cleansing.

Inuyasha
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12 Oct 2011, 1:34 pm

Gedrene wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

visagrunt wrote:

Over the past 30 years the Sinai has actually been a tourist destination.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinai_Peninsula

I'm just pointing out the fact that everyone is so eager for Israel to give up land when Israel is only about the size on the state of New Jersey.

Also found a nice little comparison between Israel and Egypt.
http://www.iris.org.il/sizemaps/egypt.htm

Israel and Jordon
http://www.iris.org.il/sizemaps/jordan.htm

There are other comparisons too
http://www.iris.org.il/sizemaps.htm

Israel really isn't a large country when you look at the size, while its neighbors are substancially larger.

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12 Oct 2011, 1:44 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Gedrene wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

visagrunt wrote:

Over the past 30 years the Sinai has actually been a tourist destination.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinai_Peninsula

Yes, it does have good diving, and it does have mount Sinai. But you see the problem is that most of the Sinai isn't coral sea or Mount Sinai, because Coral seas aren't on land and no one mountain is as big as the Sinai Peninsula. Most of the Interior of the Sinai is baking desert, hot mountains and scrub. You are unlikely to see the huge fields of flowers that spring up around Lake Galilee in the Sinai, or the spruce forests that run along the interior in Israel in the sinai Because the Sinai Peninsula isn't in the fertile cresent like the State of Israel is.

Inuyasha wrote:

I'm just pointing out the fact that everyone is so eager for Israel to give up land when Israel is only about the size on the state of New Jersey.

Also found a nice little comparison between Israel and Egypt.
http://www.iris.org.il/sizemaps/egypt.htm

Israel and Jordon
http://www.iris.org.il/sizemaps/jordan.htm

There are other comparisons too
http://www.iris.org.il/sizemaps.htm

Israel really isn't a large country when you look at the size, while its neighbors are substancially larger.

Israel's size has nothing to do with Israel's legitimacy. Just because the Americans are able to spill out over the land between oceans doesn't mean people in the old world are so lucky. Furthermore one shouldn't shift themselves just to allow a little state to plant itself wherever the hell it feels like.

Inuyasha
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12 Oct 2011, 2:04 pm

Gedrene wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Gedrene wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

visagrunt wrote:

Over the past 30 years the Sinai has actually been a tourist destination.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinai_Peninsula

Inuyasha wrote:

Well the part you have deliberately left out is the Israelis are using irrigation, and are pretty much experts now on irrigation. It wouldn't be too hard for the Israelis to show the Palestinians how to do the same thing.

The Israelis aren't going to let people attack and persecute them anymore, and face it, you guys wanted the Jews out of Europe because you didn't want to be reminded of your complicity in the Holocaust. The Jewish people didn't want to be around you people because of the Holocaust. They were also upset with America for turning a blind eye to their plight.

We've also seen the rise of anti-sematism once again in Europe, sorry but if the Israelis moved, everyone would want to take the land that they moved to and they know it.

Gedrene
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12 Oct 2011, 5:18 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Except that those poplars were always there, and the banks of the Seas Of Galilee were always covered with flowers.

Inuyasha wrote:

The Israelis aren't going to let people attack and persecute them anymore, and face it, you guys wanted the Jews out of Europe because you didn't want to be reminded of your complicity in the Holocaust.

What? Is this crazy, arrogant, anti-european racism I hear coming over the hill? I don't know what logic you are running on but assuming that I must be feeling war-guilt is insane, partly because the people who actually committed the Holocaust, the Germans, have come to terms with what they did.

As for my personal feelings about Jews, I actually wouldn't mind being invited to a Jewish house for dinner or talking with a Jew or anything else for that matter! My only problem is with Israel. Quit trying to smudge some anti-semitism in there. It aint working.

Inuyasha wrote:

The Jewish people didn't want to be around you people because of the Holocaust. They were also upset with America for turning a blind eye to their plight.

Yes, and so that somehow gives them the right to strip the Palestinians of their land in return. An eye for somebody else's eye altogether.

Inuyasha wrote:

We've also seen the rise of anti-sematism once again in Europe, sorry but if the Israelis moved, everyone would want to take the land that they moved to and they know it.

What? If israelis vacated land, other people might want to use it? I guess that's simple logic. Are you trying to say something else? Come on, spit it out.

ETHAN1994
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12 Oct 2011, 5:36 pm

Personally, I don't support the State of Israel. But I don't support Palestine either.
I feel that the whole conflict that goes on between the two has gotten daft now, so I can't take either side. In my opinion, people of all religions have all got the right to that land. And I feel that the conflict now has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with politics. And it's the 21st century, so both sides should know better! :!: And most of the Isreali and Palestinian people want to make peace and end the conflict, so they can get on their lives without having to worry about getting blown up. But their governments are so stubborn!

I feel the world should just ignore both sides until they stop fighting.

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12 Oct 2011, 11:03 pm

ETHAN1994 wrote:

And most of the Isreali and Palestinian people want to make peace and end the conflict, so they can get on their lives without having to worry about getting blown up.

You obviously haven't heard about the POOR israeli colonists that are waiting for their NEW buildings to be built on stolen land. <.<

I dislike Israel's politics, but I like it as a research subject, nothing more. Once I get a stable income, I'll actively be boycotting whatever comes out from there. <.< I am also disgusted by the "sympathy capital" that they ride on to lobby in other nation-states for protection such as USA and Canada. It's as if we're not allowed to take our own decisions. -.-

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