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Does Anyone Else Worry About Psychopathy?

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Oodain
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17 Jan 2012, 2:23 pm

snapcap wrote:
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I also think that if a death row convict is healthy, they should have the option of donating their organs instead of the lethal injection type of execution. They could be given extra privelages for this as well.


Would you be OK with receiving a donated organ from a death row inmate?



what does it matter where it came from,

i would say there is a good chance any organ comes from a criminal, someone too stupid for comfort or worse,

in the end it doesnt matter.


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17 Jan 2012, 2:36 pm

Oodain wrote:
snapcap wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
I also think that if a death row convict is healthy, they should have the option of donating their organs instead of the lethal injection type of execution. They could be given extra privelages for this as well.


Would you be OK with receiving a donated organ from a death row inmate?



what does it matter where it came from,

i would say there is a good chance any organ comes from a criminal, someone too stupid for comfort or worse,

in the end it doesnt matter.


I don't think it does, but I don't think that is everyone's opinion.


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hanyo
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17 Jan 2012, 2:39 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:

I also think that if a death row convict is healthy, they should have the option of donating their organs instead of the lethal injection type of execution. They could be given extra privelages for this as well.


They had that on an episode of Oz in season 1. A death row inmate got them to allow him to donate one of his kidneys to his dying sister.



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17 Jan 2012, 2:52 pm

abacacus wrote:
VIDEODROME wrote:
I could see maybe dissecting the cadavers but not experimenting on the living prisoners.


Theirs crimes have stripped them of humanity and any rights they may have been entitled too in my mind... why do we feed them, keep them alive? They have destroyed other peoples lives (especially the child molesters) and yet we treat them relatively well out of some misguided idea of ethics and morality...


Why does nobody ever mention rapists? They're just as bad as child molesters - it's exactly the same crime.



donnie_darko
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17 Jan 2012, 3:23 pm

smudge wrote:
Why does nobody ever mention rapists? They're just as bad as child molesters - it's exactly the same crime.


What I don't get is how anyone can think either crime is on the same level as taking a person's life. I mean like, of anything I'd say pouring acid in someone's face or something like that maybe approaches murder in badness.

I think Americans are just kind of prudes and even see consensual sex as being somewhat evil unless it's as vanilla as possible and done inside marriage for the sole purpose of having a baby. So rape is gonna be basically as bad as mass murder and child molestation practically equal to the Holocaust. The reason why Europe doesn't hate Roman Polanski is because even though they recognize his crime was really bad, Americans see anyone who commits a serious crime as being unforgivable and subhuman, and can't possibly have any positive qualities.

But yeah, I guess people are wired to protect children and to mistrust adults. So that's why.



Last edited by donnie_darko on 17 Jan 2012, 3:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

mar00
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17 Jan 2012, 3:33 pm

Bun wrote:
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First off Mengele didn't understand a thing and it wasn't criminals that he tortured. Wrong example.
What do you mean 'didn't understand a thing?'

I mean that I am unsure if he accomplished anything from a scientific perspective with these 'experiments'.



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17 Jan 2012, 3:49 pm

I agree with you.


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abacacus
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17 Jan 2012, 4:05 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
smudge wrote:
Why does nobody ever mention rapists? They're just as bad as child molesters - it's exactly the same crime.


What I don't get is how anyone can think either crime is on the same level as taking a person's life. I mean like, of anything I'd say pouring acid in someone's face or something like that maybe approaches murder in badness.

I think Americans are just kind of prudes and even see consensual sex as being somewhat evil unless it's as vanilla as possible and done inside marriage for the sole purpose of having a baby. So rape is gonna be basically as bad as mass murder and child molestation practically equal to the Holocaust. The reason why Europe doesn't hate Roman Polanski is because even though they recognize his crime was really bad, Americans see anyone who commits a serious crime as being unforgivable and subhuman, and can't possibly have any positive qualities.

But yeah, I guess people are wired to protect children and to mistrust adults. So that's why.


I'd rather be dead than have to live with that kind of trauma. One of my friends was raped by her father when she was 5 years old, it destroyed her. She still has issues with any kind of physical contact, can't sleep without a light on or with anyone else in the room or if the door is unlocked.

The reason I separate between child molestation and rape is I suppose arbitrary, I just see someone preying on children as worse.


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17 Jan 2012, 4:46 pm

abacacus wrote:

I'd rather be dead than have to live with that kind of trauma. One of my friends was raped by her father when she was 5 years old, it destroyed her. She still has issues with any kind of physical contact, can't sleep without a light on or with anyone else in the room or if the door is unlocked.

The reason I separate between child molestation and rape is I suppose arbitrary, I just see someone preying on children as worse.


She probably has other problems as well, such as not a lot of people who support her and give her the love she needs.

If being raped is really a 'fate worse than death' than should euthanasia be a legal option for rape victims, like how some people think those with terminal illness/pain should have the option of assisted suicide? It's a fair question, I think. Sorry if I'm being offensive. I don't mean to be. But to me, it's insulting to suggest that victims of sex crimes would be better off dead for their own sake.



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17 Jan 2012, 5:35 pm

abacacus wrote:
Sure some innocent people land in prison, but they are the minority.

IMO one innocent person being executed or having some irreversible thing done to them (and their family, if they are killed or permanently disabled in some way) is too many.
Quote:
I'm not saying experiment on EVERY criminal, but those whose crimes destroy lives. I don't understand how we can value their life after they have shown that they don't value anyone else's lives. Why keep someone who has killed 15 people alive? Why do they deserve to live more than their victims?

I see people arguing this way a lot on this issue -- they start with the premise that they know with 100% certainty that the person is guilty, and then reason out a punishment. In the real world you'll never know for sure if a person is the person that you think they are (the one who committed the crime).

It feels good to consider invoking the 'wrath of god' on people who do horrible things, but unlike god we're not omnipresent and so are not competent enough to issue such punishments.



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17 Jan 2012, 5:43 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
abacacus wrote:

I'd rather be dead than have to live with that kind of trauma. One of my friends was raped by her father when she was 5 years old, it destroyed her. She still has issues with any kind of physical contact, can't sleep without a light on or with anyone else in the room or if the door is unlocked.

The reason I separate between child molestation and rape is I suppose arbitrary, I just see someone preying on children as worse.


She probably has other problems as well, such as not a lot of people who support her and give her the love she needs.

If being raped is really a 'fate worse than death' than should euthanasia be a legal option for rape victims, like how some people think those with terminal illness/pain should have the option of assisted suicide? It's a fair question, I think. Sorry if I'm being offensive. I don't mean to be. But to me, it's insulting to suggest that victims of sex crimes would be better off dead for their own sake.


I believe that euthanasia is a right anyone should have for any reason. It's not my right to tell someone that they can't die. I'll try to talk them out of it, but I don't have the right to force them to stay alive if they want to die.

The rather be dead thing is my own personal opinion, not me saying that all of them would be better off dead.


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17 Jan 2012, 5:52 pm

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
abacacus wrote:
Sure some innocent people land in prison, but they are the minority.

IMO one innocent person being executed or having some irreversible thing done to them (and their family, if they are killed or permanently disabled in some way) is too many.
Quote:
I'm not saying experiment on EVERY criminal, but those whose crimes destroy lives. I don't understand how we can value their life after they have shown that they don't value anyone else's lives. Why keep someone who has killed 15 people alive? Why do they deserve to live more than their victims?

I see people arguing this way a lot on this issue -- they start with the premise that they know with 100% certainty that the person is guilty, and then reason out a punishment. In the real world you'll never know for sure if a person is the person that you think they are (the one who committed the crime).

It feels good to consider invoking the 'wrath of god' on people who do horrible things, but unlike god we're not omnipresent and so are not competent enough to issue such punishments.


Even if the one innocent who dies ends up causing a cure for some chronic illness that kills many to be found?

While you may never know 100% for sure, it's the matter of reasonable doubt. If video or DNA evidence says it was that man, the chances are overwhelmingly in favour that it was him.


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17 Jan 2012, 6:39 pm

abacacus wrote:
Even if the one innocent who dies ends up causing a cure for some chronic illness that kills many to be found?

Even if it's you, or your mother, or your child, or someone else you care about? I think that the medical progress wouldn't at all make up for it. Hell, I wouldn't even sacrifice my cat for that (but maybe I care less about society than most).

Also, realistically, one person's life leading to a medical breakthrough is unlikely. It would more likely be thousands of people over many years. I have no idea how many lab animals are killed in medical research every year, but I'd bet it's a mind-boggling number.

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While you may never know 100% for sure, it's the matter of reasonable doubt. If video or DNA evidence says it was that man, the chances are overwhelmingly in favour that it was him.

IMO, one innocent person being executed or irreversibly experimented on is too much, and I don't trust humans not to screw up too much. As far as certainty, that might be true in some cases, but in it might not be as simple as it seems. I.e. A surprising number of people will (and have) falsely confess to murder if they are psychologically pushed hard enough (and police interrogators study & practice how to do exactly that) -- and little seems as certain as the person 'admitting' that they did the crime.



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17 Jan 2012, 8:33 pm

I don't really think rape is worse than death, I believe those are just pretty words. A lot of rape victims had tried to avoid some kind of death threat when it happened to them.


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17 Jan 2012, 8:52 pm

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
abacacus wrote:
Even if the one innocent who dies ends up causing a cure for some chronic illness that kills many to be found?

Even if it's you, or your mother, or your child, or someone else you care about? I think that the medical progress wouldn't at all make up for it. Hell, I wouldn't even sacrifice my cat for that (but maybe I care less about society than most).

Also, realistically, one person's life leading to a medical breakthrough is unlikely. It would more likely be thousands of people over many years. I have no idea how many lab animals are killed in medical research every year, but I'd bet it's a mind-boggling number.

Quote:
While you may never know 100% for sure, it's the matter of reasonable doubt. If video or DNA evidence says it was that man, the chances are overwhelmingly in favour that it was him.

IMO, one innocent person being executed or irreversibly experimented on is too much, and I don't trust humans not to screw up too much. As far as certainty, that might be true in some cases, but in it might not be as simple as it seems. I.e. A surprising number of people will (and have) falsely confess to murder if they are psychologically pushed hard enough (and police interrogators study & practice how to do exactly that) -- and little seems as certain as the person 'admitting' that they did the crime.


If my mother or father turned out to be a serial killer or rapist or some such I'd be shocked, and likely remove all contact from them. After that point, why would I really care what happens to them? They would no longer be part of my life.

While ones person life might bring about a cure, there is always that turning point. The key found in that one particular experiment.

If someone confesses to a crime they didn't commit, whatever happens is entirely on them. Even if they were pressured by police (something I'm familiar with), they still made the decision to admit to it.


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18 Jan 2012, 12:21 am

Bun wrote:
I don't really think rape is worse than death, I believe those are just pretty words. A lot of rape victims had tried to avoid some kind of death threat when it happened to them.


I think life-destroying abuse is worse than death insofar that it causes a long period of continued suffering. A lifetime of suffering even. I agree that people will choose all kinds of suffering over death, simply because the human survival instinct is extremely strong. But if you look at the amount of pain and suffering caused by both kinds of crime, rapists inflict far more pain and hardship on their victims than murderers.