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androbot2084
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19 Jan 2012, 4:55 pm

With electronic money inflation is not a problem because you do not need a wheelbarrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread.



Dantac
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19 Jan 2012, 6:32 pm

I don't see anything in that video where he claims he does what he does because of his beliefs in religion. Listen to the clip and pay attention. He makes comparisons with what is on the bible and the constitution and DOES quote a founding father's words on that respect. His audience was a group of religious and he was not there alone.. I believe all the other candidates were there and he was present via long range communication as Dr Paul was in washington doing his day job: congressman.

I could go into the huge clusterf**k the current capitalist system is in because of fiat currency and why returning to a tangible, physical back-up of money is what ensures stability but it'd take me five pages to type it out. :P



pandabear
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19 Jan 2012, 9:30 pm

Dantac wrote:
I don't see anything in that video where he claims he does what he does because of his beliefs in religion. Listen to the clip and pay attention. He makes comparisons with what is on the bible and the constitution and DOES quote a founding father's words on that respect. His audience was a group of religious and he was not there alone.. I believe all the other candidates were there and he was present via long range communication as Dr Paul was in washington doing his day job: congressman.

I could go into the huge f**** the current capitalist system is in because of fiat currency and why returning to a tangible, physical back-up of money is what ensures stability but it'd take me five pages to type it out. :P


Could you write a defensible thesis on the topic?



ruveyn
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20 Jan 2012, 6:03 am

pandabear wrote:

Could you write a defensible thesis on the topic?


Mises and Hayek already have.

ruveyn



johansen
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20 Jan 2012, 9:15 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
The reason why Nixon got rid of the gold standard was because we were fighting a war and we were quickly running out of gold although we had plenty of resources to continue fighting as long as we switched to paper money. Although I did not support the Vietnam war, nevertheless paper money was considered better than gold because it was backed up by the American economy.


right, and the reason we pulled out of nam was because we couldn't print money fast enough to pay for it. /sarc

no, the reason Nix went off the gold standard was because France started exchanging dollars for gold by the bushel.

The world hasn't seen a free market in 5000+ years of recorded history. it does get close though, and close enough is good enough for most people.



johansen
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20 Jan 2012, 9:25 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
With electronic money inflation is not a problem because you do not need a wheelbarrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread.


hahaha.

do you troll zerohedge too?



Awesomelyglorious
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20 Jan 2012, 10:21 pm

ruveyn wrote:
pandabear wrote:

We also went through some rather severe recessions and depressions in the past. Going back to a gold standard is no guarantee of nirvana. Quite the opposite.


With paper money you have the German inflation. With gold standard you have the Great Depression. Either was the economy goes into the tank.

ruveyn

The problem is that unless the monetary authority goes berserk, you don't get hyperinflation. The Weimar Republic was inflating due to massive economic problems that nation was facing.



Dantac
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27 Jan 2012, 12:36 pm

The simplest way to explain the difference is that, as shown in the above posts, if the economy tanks it will tank. There is no way to prevent economic problems or crashes because they are caused by a series of human errors that eventually implode.

At the core of those problems is credit. Whether there is a gold standard or merely paper money backed economies the issue is always that credit gets out of hand. Credit is the backbone of the entire stock exchange and the economic system since..well, probably since before the middle ages.

The big difference however is that with a gold standard backing the credit lines have a significantly harder time reaching that implosion point (in fact the great depression was largely caused by the federal reserve's mismanagement of credit in their attempt to prevent economic problems of the first decade of the 1900's). Without the ability to print endless money the credit lines do not overextend that easily.

In a pure paper economy there is virtually unlimited means to overextend credit lines and the entire system becomes addicted to it because of the multiple-decades of insane growth it creates. It cannot go on forever however.

When the crash does happen is when the difference between gold and paper standard comes to play. With gold standard there is a tangible asset that backs the money while in paper economy there is nothing. Our current system bases the value of money largely on expected future income which is absolutely idiotic and fatal because when the crash does hit there IS no future income of any sort that can be relied upon.

As the old saying goes... if you have gold in hand you can trade with it but if you're stuck with paper money all you can do is burn it.

Now, Dr. Paul's idea of a gold-backed economy may not be entirely viable in our current economy because there is not enough gold around to account for the assets out there. Gold or precious metals that is. But there are alternatives or add-ons that can be used to back the currency and bring long term stability to the market... things like land, mineral rights and other natural resources can be used as part of the back-the-money-with-something 'portafolio' .



NextFact
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27 Jan 2012, 11:46 pm

A great majority, if not all of societies problems can be traced back to the monetary system. There has never been any idea that has been so utterly devastating and destructive to the earth, to each other and to other creatures than the concept of money. The pursuit of money and posessions will probably lead to our own extinction eventually, already it is the driving motive behind nearly every form of cruelty, atrocity and destructive act around the world.



ruveyn
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28 Jan 2012, 8:58 am

NextFact wrote:
A great majority, if not all of societies problems can be traced back to the monetary system. There has never been any idea that has been so utterly devastating and destructive to the earth, to each other and to other creatures than the concept of money. The pursuit of money and posessions will probably lead to our own extinction eventually, already it is the driving motive behind nearly every form of cruelty, atrocity and destructive act around the world.


The alternative to money is a primitive barter system which could never in a million year make a modern industrial system possible. That means we would be living in a granola and chicken sh*t economy, trading smoked fish for deer meat.

ruveyn



NextFact
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28 Jan 2012, 1:59 pm

ruveyn wrote:
NextFact wrote:
A great majority, if not all of societies problems can be traced back to the monetary system. There has never been any idea that has been so utterly devastating and destructive to the earth, to each other and to other creatures than the concept of money. The pursuit of money and posessions will probably lead to our own extinction eventually, already it is the driving motive behind nearly every form of cruelty, atrocity and destructive act around the world.


The alternative to money is a primitive barter system which could never in a million year make a modern industrial system possible. That means we would be living in a granola and chicken sh*t economy, trading smoked fish for deer meat.

ruveyn


Why do you assume bartering and trading is the only way to have a society?



ruveyn
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28 Jan 2012, 3:22 pm

NextFact wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
NextFact wrote:
A great majority, if not all of societies problems can be traced back to the monetary system. There has never been any idea that has been so utterly devastating and destructive to the earth, to each other and to other creatures than the concept of money. The pursuit of money and posessions will probably lead to our own extinction eventually, already it is the driving motive behind nearly every form of cruelty, atrocity and destructive act around the world.


The alternative to money is a primitive barter system which could never in a million year make a modern industrial system possible. That means we would be living in a granola and chicken sh*t economy, trading smoked fish for deer meat.

ruveyn


Why do you assume bartering and trading is the only way to have a society?


How do you propose getting the products of labor to the who need them. Do you propose everyone become self sufficient? That could only work at a very low standard of living. Bare subsistence.

ruveyn



ArrantPariah
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27 Aug 2012, 8:44 pm

It does appear that the USA doesn't have enough gold to cover a gold standard

http://economywatch.nbcnews.com/_news/2 ... short?lite

Quote:
Though the demise of the gold standard played out over decades, President Richard Nixon officially broke the link between gold and the dollar after the 1971 oil crisis sparked a surge in demand for gold redemptions from U.S. trading partners.



CSBurks
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27 Aug 2012, 10:59 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
It does appear that the USA doesn't have enough gold to cover a gold standard

http://economywatch.nbcnews.com/_news/2 ... short?lite

Quote:
Though the demise of the gold standard played out over decades, President Richard Nixon officially broke the link between gold and the dollar after the 1971 oil crisis sparked a surge in demand for gold redemptions from U.S. trading partners.


There is no required amount to set a gold standard. You just set a ratio between the dollar and gold. It used to be $20/ oz of gold; based on that, yes, we probably don't have enough gold.

The ratio of dollars to gold would be high, but still possible.



Kraichgauer
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28 Aug 2012, 1:58 am

My God. Just when I think Ron Paul is crazy enough, he opens his mouth and astounds me even more.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ruveyn
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28 Aug 2012, 2:33 am

CSBurks wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
It does appear that the USA doesn't have enough gold to cover a gold standard

http://economywatch.nbcnews.com/_news/2 ... short?lite

Quote:
Though the demise of the gold standard played out over decades, President Richard Nixon officially broke the link between gold and the dollar after the 1971 oil crisis sparked a surge in demand for gold redemptions from U.S. trading partners.


There is no required amount to set a gold standard. You just set a ratio between the dollar and gold. It used to be $20/ oz of gold; based on that, yes, we probably don't have enough gold.

The ratio of dollars to gold would be high, but still possible.


Metal based currency does not address the problem is providing enough credit to keep the economy growing. Without credit, modern industrial capitalism is not possible.

ruveyn