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enrico_dandolo
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22 Mar 2012, 3:34 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
FACTS:

*Year the Globe Theatre was burned by Parlimentarians = 1644
*Year the Puritans arrived in the New World = 1621

It changes nothing to the fact that the Puritans were rampaging religious zealots bent on converting all England to their confession, not an oppressed minority.



iamnotaparakeet
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22 Mar 2012, 3:42 pm

enrico_dandolo wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
FACTS:

*Year the Globe Theatre was burned by Parlimentarians = 1644
*Year the Puritans arrived in the New World = 1621

It changes nothing to the fact that the Puritans were rampaging religious zealots bent on converting all England to their confession, not an oppressed minority.


You don't even realize what the heck you're saying. The Puritans who emigrated were not the ones who stayed behind. The burning of the Globe Theatre was 23 years after the Pilgrims arrived in Plymouth.



enrico_dandolo
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22 Mar 2012, 3:44 pm

I never talked about the Globe Theatre.

By the way, what did they do once they arrived in America? Oh, right, they created a theocracy.



iamnotaparakeet
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22 Mar 2012, 3:50 pm

enrico_dandolo wrote:
I never talked about the Globe Theatre.

By the way, what did they do once they arrived in America? Oh, right, they created a theocracy.


Oh sorry, confused you and your buddy newb as being the same character. Sorry about that.



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12 Apr 2012, 3:17 pm

I think the best options are for space colonies. Just build it in space. We don't need planets, though Earth should become a common heritage. A series of space colonies could expand and continue to grow from space resources indefinitely. There is more metal in one asteroid than mankind has mined to date. Living on planets just traps you into living on another planet. I've given it considerable thought and have developed a means to do all of that. Plus space colonies could each have their own law and be Federated. Hell, we could all own our own space colonies, it would be like having our own boat in international waters. So each ship or colony could dock with the Federation base colony for supplies or maintenance etc...

Each colony could also become a vessel to further explore the universe. The Federation could be never ending!

In cylindrical rotating colonies you can have everything you need, gravity rain, you name it! Gravity is the only really hard part to get right, but it's possible IMO and advancements will come. I see no reason not to do it. It's just a matter of getting a state sponsor for the project that will allow it to become a Federation of colonies rather than a state in space that is owned by them.



naturalplastic
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12 Apr 2012, 6:43 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
In the 1600's, the Americas were the West, it was a land that had opportunity for a new life away from the insanity of the highly populated and corrupt governments of Europe. In the 1800's, the lands west of the Louisiana Territory were the West. Now though everything on Earth is owned and everything is run by governments of various degrees of corruption and insanity, so what is the West now is everything that is not Earth. Currently, without FTL, this means the rest of the solar system is the West. The moon, Mars, the moons of the gas giants, the Plutoids, the asteroid belt, etc. I know Ruveyn here advocates the moon as being the first place to colonize since it is closer, and that's fine and a lot of people agree with that as far as I've seen, although I still prefer Zubrin's aim of Mars since it's further away and has a 24 hour and 39 minute day as compared to a month long day and much more mineral resources for agriculture. However it's done though, whether the Earth's own moon or Mars is used as the springboard into the rest of the solar system, it will just be good if anything is ever done other than wasting time here on Earth while everything continues to worsen.

Now, there is a pattern here though. What is West continues to move outward as cities build and fill up space and politicians fight for their petty hill-kingdoms. However, there are plenty of people to remain and enjoy the annoyance of city life while the people who can't stand it move elsewhere and expand ever further outward. East may follow West, but even so there's no lack of space to become West while the East trails behind it and encourages those who hate laziness and politics to move outward to a new frontier.


Im open to the idea of space travel. If you can sell me on this you cant sell it to anyone.

you're invoking a nonexistent past in order to sell us on a nonexistent future.

The Europeans who first settled the Americas were not defying the crowned heads of Europe-they were agents of the kings of Europe carving out the empires of thier distant overlords, and were dependent upon their distant lords for the first two centuries. It took centuries before european colonist rose up against their european overlords and sought independence in the two Americas.

Similarly any space colonist can expect a similiar history. you're going to be under the thumb of big terrestrial government and or corportions for the same six generations that that the Jamestown colonists lived under the British Crown.

Second: why are you pitching to wannabe cowboys who want to flee both big brother and big cities?

If you lived in a domed city on mars or in a gerard O'Neil space colony you would be part of a rigid regimented community of hyperconformists. If you stepped out of line you would have to learn to breath in ten percent atmospher at 200 below zero real fast. Living with eight million fellow New Yorkers would be less annoying than living with a couple hundred fellow space colonists.

And if you want to get away from big brother you would be better off staying on Earth.
Being an astroid miner is to be a cog in a capital intensive interplanetary enterprise run by absantee landlord a billion miles away on earth. To be a space colonist is be married to big brother.

To survive as a space colonist you have to be fanatically and fevently willing to be cooperative and to take orders from big brother.

But you're trying to sell as a way to escape the very things that space colonization would demand of anyone.

So you're fighting against yourself with this particular salespitch.