The Enemies of Reason

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Rocky
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03 May 2012, 1:57 am

Orr wrote:

Richard Dawkins' is not at all superficially charming, and his level-headed views on religion show tolerance. If the world had more moderately minded people, such as him, we would surely be living in paradise. :wink:

Your wink emoticon makes me think you were using sarcasm criticizing Professor Dawkins for being intolerant of religion. He makes no apologies for being an anti-theist. I agree with him (and others like John Lennon) that the world would be better off without religion. Even if it wouldn't necessarily be a paradise,

When I think of intolerance, I think of people like Fred Phelps and Islamic terrorists.

Jono
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03 May 2012, 2:48 am

Rocky wrote:

Orr wrote:

I didn't pick up that it was sarcasm.

Orr
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03 May 2012, 4:11 am

Rocky wrote:

Jono wrote:

I didn't pick up that it was sarcasm.

I apologise for not making my intention clear, encapsulating within sarcasm tags would have been better.

I cannot see how the world would be better off without religion. This seems overly assumptive to me. Intolerance surely exists without religion.

As I see it, the problems are that there is more than one religion, and that people, being imperfect, use excuses to justify their actions, Fred Phelps and Islamic terrorists being good examples. Also, in one of those videos, I believe Dawkins' mentions the Bush administration.

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Rocky
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03 May 2012, 4:50 am

Orr wrote:

Rocky wrote:

Jono wrote:

I didn't pick up that it was sarcasm.

First, I want to mention that some of my best friends are theists. :lol:

Seriously, I only know a couple of people personally, who are atheists. I wouldn't think of shunning everyone else in my life. As I mentioned in another recent thread, I would never think less of anyone because they are a theist. I used to be one myself. I consider religions as a way to avoid reality. I have my own ways that I do that, so I can not criticize anyone without being a hypocrite. I do criticize religions though. I love the song by John Lennon "Imagine," but I also love his song "Whatever Gets You Through the Night (is alright.)"

I saw the entire documentary a long time ago. I don't remember what was said about the Bush administration.

edgewaters
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03 May 2012, 5:07 am

Orr wrote:

I am sure it does, it would probably exist if we were all one race as well. They'd just go by something else. But that doesn't mean that racism doesn't generate intolerance.

Religion is not completely lily-white and innocent as many like to claim. It's not completely evil either ... I think it's just obsolete. It was the science before science, an attempt to explain the world around us.

donnie_darko
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03 May 2012, 9:04 am

Robdemanc wrote:

I think anti depressants are over prescribed and aggessively sold to health professionals by drug companies. And I think the way they work has a strong correlation with the drug MDMA (Ecstasy), it is curious that all modern antidepressants came about after the 1950's when MDMA was first synthesised.

Also there is no proof that depression is caused by a lack of chemicals in the brain, and furthermore the anti depressants do not even increase the chemicals in the brain, they just make them longer acting. I think it is an industry that is chasing big profits rather than helping people.

Yes I think the self-described skeptics need to be consistent on stuff like that. I notice those types tend to be not-so-skeptical when it comes to things that big pharma or the United States Government say.

Jono
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04 May 2012, 3:10 am

Orr wrote:

Rocky wrote:

Jono wrote:

I didn't pick up that it was sarcasm.

Intolerance probably would exist without religion but that doesn't mean that there isn't any intolerance due to religion.

Jono
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04 May 2012, 3:13 am

donnie_darko wrote:

Robdemanc wrote:

Pharmaceutical companies are sometimes unethical However that doesn't mean that alternative medicine somehow works while mainstream medicine is not to be trusted. At least mainstream drugs actually go through medical trials and mainstream medicine is evidence based.

Orr
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04 May 2012, 12:40 pm

Jono wrote:

Intolerance probably would exist without religion but that doesn't mean that there isn't any intolerance due to religion.

That seems to me like saying intolerance would exist without there being differences in ethnicity, but that does not mean there is not any intolerance due to there being differences in ethnicity.[/quote]

While I recognise differences exist, I believe that the intolerance is due to the mind of the intolerant, not inherent in the race, or belief of a person being looked upon.

edgewaters wrote:

Religion is not completely lily-white and innocent as many like to claim. It's not completely evil either ... I think it's just obsolete. It was the science before science, an attempt to explain the world around us.

I see it as innocent, like a gun.

Rocky wrote:

First, I want to mention that some of my best friends are theists. Laughing Seriously, I only know a couple of people personally, who are atheists. I wouldn't think of shunning everyone else in my life. As I mentioned in another recent thread, I would never think less of anyone because they are a theist. I used to be one myself. I consider religions as a way to avoid reality. I have my own ways that I do that, so I can not criticize anyone without being a hypocrite. I do criticize religions though. I love the song by John Lennon "Imagine," but I also love his song "Whatever Gets You Through the Night (is alright.)"

I saw the entire documentary a long time ago. I don't remember what was said about the Bush administration.

Nothing RD says is particularly memorable, lacking the necessary spark of originality.

Criticism is great. Discrimination also appreciated.

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Orr
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04 May 2012, 12:46 pm

Jono wrote:

Intolerance probably would exist without religion but that doesn't mean that there isn't any intolerance due to religion.

edgewaters wrote:

I see it as innocent, like a gun.

Rocky wrote:

Nothing RD says is particularly memorable, lacking the necessary spark of originality.

Criticism is great. Discrimination also appreciated.

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Rocky
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04 May 2012, 2:37 pm

Orr wrote:

Jono wrote:

Intolerance probably would exist without religion but that doesn't mean that there isn't any intolerance due to religion.

That seems to me like saying intolerance would exist without there being differences in ethnicity, but that does not mean there is not any intolerance due to there being differences in ethnicity.

While I recognise differences exist, I believe that the intolerance is due to the mind of the intolerant, not inherent in the race, or belief of a person being looked upon.

edgewaters wrote:

I see it as innocent, like a gun.

Rocky wrote:

Nothing RD says is particularly memorable, lacking the necessary spark of originality.

Criticism is great. Discrimination also appreciated.[/quote]

The reason I don't remember one detail in a documentary I saw long ago is not because RD is not original or memorable. My aging brain is to blame. RD is quite original, I would say. He is responsible for many memes, including the concept of memes! I don't think he has ever been accused of plagiarism, or anything like it, until now.

(Edited typo)

Last edited by Rocky on 09 May 2012, 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Joker
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04 May 2012, 2:43 pm

Rocky wrote:

Orr wrote:

Jono wrote:

Intolerance probably would exist without religion but that doesn't mean that there isn't any intolerance due to religion.

That seems to me like saying intolerance would exist without there being differences in ethnicity, but that does not mean there is not any intolerance due to there being differences in ethnicity.

While I recognise differences exist, I believe that the intolerance is due to the mind of the intolerant, not inherent in the race, or belief of a person being looked upon.

edgewaters wrote:

I see it as innocent, like a gun.

Rocky wrote:

Nothing RD says is particularly memorable, lacking the necessary spark of originality.

Criticism is great. Discrimination also appreciated.

The reason I don't remember one detail in a documentary I saw long ago is not because RD is not original or memorable. My aging brain is to blame. RD is quite original, I would say. He is responsible for many memes, including the concept of memes! I don't think any of he has ever been accused of plagiarism, or anything like it, until now.[/quote]

A person has to fire the gun so a gun is always innoent

Orr
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04 May 2012, 6:23 pm

Rocky wrote:

I was referring to the videos occupying the current thread, and counter the blaming of your brain with the lack of verbosity in my posting.

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Jono
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08 May 2012, 8:55 pm

Orr wrote:

Rocky wrote:

I was referring to the videos occupying the current thread, and counter the blaming of your brain with the lack of verbosity in my posting.

These particular videos aren't specifically talking about religion.

Orr
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09 May 2012, 2:17 am

Jono wrote:

Orr wrote:

Rocky wrote:

I was referring to the videos occupying the current thread, and counter the blaming of your brain with the lack of verbosity in my posting.

These particular videos aren't specifically talking about religion.

Sorry for drifting off topic, Jono.

In these particular videos, as in others, Dawkins celebrates his skepticism.

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Rocky
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09 May 2012, 2:53 am

Jono wrote:

Orr wrote:

Rocky wrote:

I was referring to the videos occupying the current thread, and counter the blaming of your brain with the lack of verbosity in my posting.

These particular videos aren't specifically talking about religion.

It is understandable to confuse religion with other types of superstition. To the believer, the only difference is that the other religions are superstition. To the non-believer, they all are.

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