Why is there so much liberal hate?

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Right. But we all depend on each other. It's an illusion to think that, because you get money, you do not rely on other people.

Bill Gates heavily relies on other people.

You can't have a "right to work" without forcing someone else to pay you. As things stand most small mom-and-pop type businesses simply don't have the money to support what it costs for the average worker to live in America. They can't hire people out of charity if they themselves only make a modest income. The bulk of the wealth is concentrated with the big firms that prefer to hire overseas, yet rely on our shrinking middle class as a sizable chunk of their consumer base. That's where the top 1% who oppose higher taxation have their heads in the sand as it's an unsustainable setup. Sensible 1%'ers are for raising taxes on the wealthy so government can fund itself and provide people with jobs, even if they are against government red tape interfering with business in general.

Last edited by marshall on 03 Jul 2012, 3:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

You realie on relie on them for money but. You buy your own food clothes they. DO not do those things for you.

no but that is largely irrelevant to the point being made,

we as humans are social creautres living in a global society of some 7 billion people, without those people there wouldnt be any money so by the very fact that you have money we can see tyhat you are a part of teh shared global society.

True but if their was nothing worth value and people. Then their would be no curency.

That's what I'm saying. You do not make your food and you don't make your clothes. That is impossible. So we all rely on others.

Oh course that is true but they pay you for a service. They don't pay you then they. Don't run a very good business.

Ive done those things befor I was a boy scout.

A conversation liberals and conservatives should have.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D89TLas6Ct0[/youtube]

My whole argument isn't that people should be life long dependent on the government. I think pulling your own weight and self reliance should be the ultimate objective at any time. However, if people can't pull their weight, cause they're laid off or injured or old, or sick and don't have a means of producing what necessary for basic survival, I think its immoral that they be left to starve as some people have advocated. I don't want things to end up like Ethiopia or Colombia in the 90's. It may just be Karma though, being that American's really didn't care much about those parts of the world at the time and how the IMF was granting unreasonable loans with draconian, neo-liberal requirements.

It's a result of political propaganda in the media. One party demonizing the other. It's exactly what happened in Rwanda, which shows you how powerful the media can be (talk radio, in particular). (And how gullible and stupid people can be.)

I remember it starting in the 80's with Rush Limbaugh. Back then the word "progressive" didn't exist because "liberal" was not a "dirty word." Limbaugh pretty much single handedly destroyed that word. (And how pathetic is it that liberals ran away from the word instead of saying, "hell yeah, I'm a liberal -- and I'm going to tell you what that really means.")

The reason you see less demonization by liberals of conservatives is that conservatives are better at it and over the last 30 years have built an awesome media machine to distribute their messages. I've got to hand it to them for carrying out so successfully such a long-term plan. (And they are totally kicking Democratic ass with it.)

In most cities in the USA all the talk radio stations run only conservative programs (Limbaugh, Scarboro, Hannity, Beck, etc). San Francisco lost its only liberal radio station earlier this year. That's right, there's no liberal talk radio in San Francisco. (And no, it wasn't because of bad ratings. Station owners who run conservative talk can make more money because they are charged less for the shows. It's like the Weekly Standard (magazine) being run at a loss for 15 years in order to have political impact in Washington.)

It's been interesting to see things happen over time. There's an idea that people don't come up with their own ideas -- they just absorb the ideas that are around them. It seems to be very true. It's quite remarkable how easily people are influenced that way. Propaganda really does work.

They can't pay you if the work you provide them doesn't increase their business earnings in return. The concept is very simple "money in" = "money out", or the business goes bankrupt. The majority of employers in the US aren't holding onto loads of extra cash. That's why there cannot be a "right to 100% employment".

All the money that could be spent on hiring workers is continuously funneled to the large multi-national companies that used to give back to their host countries. Now these companies hire everywhere but at home while simultaneously looking for more and more ways to avoid paying any taxes to the host country.

Have you listened carefully to what extreme Left Liberal say about people who disagree with them?

ruveyn

I think the biggest mistake that can be made is to lump all business together, which is often a tactic politicians use. The ultra-right wants us to think that small scale local businesses are no different from large scale multi-national corporations, because they don't want solidarity among the middle and lower class. The far left, in the past, wanted people to think that small business and big business were apart of the same bourgeois elite because their whole game was about turning over all capital and property to the state with the promise that it would some how result in a classless utopia. To me, the goals of the far right and far left are the same, as the end game is to concentrate all resources into the hands of a few powerful, globalist entities. Whether its called the Communist Party or the IMF, I don't really give a damn. Its essentially the same, highly stratified, top-down hierarchy.

Small and local business is good, as its direct, decentralization of property ownership. Every bit of land that a local businessman owns is just one less piece of land that the bankers and government don't own. Big industry dependent on sweat shop labor is bad, because its a strong centralization of property ownership. If a corporation owns everything, all the land, water, forests, etc etc. you're every bit as dependent on that entity for survival as a serf was to a king or a soviet citizen was to the state. Neo-liberalism, despite what the propaganda says, will no more promote a independence and self sufficiency than the communist party promoted a classless society.

Small business owners should stop listening to fox news too, stop invisioning their selves as bing potential oligarchs, and realize that in the end they're going to get screwed over byt he globalist agenda too. They'll go out of business, and some mega corporation will get their assets and property.Everyone should stop supporting sweat shop labor from wal mart and buy more local stuff. The low low prices look good up front, but in the end, all our jobs will be shipped overseas, and the only way we'll get them back is when we'll be working in sweat shops (with no unions, no workers comp, no child labor laws, not enough money to buy property, only enough to get very basic necessities) just like those brown people in Indonesia we've been looking down on for decades and never thought we'd never possibly be in their shoes.

I'm not really convinced that Libertarians are all anti-statist either. Lets not forget that communists once espoused anti-statist rhetoric. However, they adopted the idea that a proletarian state could help transition to a stateless society. I wouldn't be surprised if Libertarians, if they ever gain enough traction, adopt the idea that a corporate state could help transition to a stateless society in the same feat of mental gymnastics that the communists made. They might just let Exon-Mobile-Monsanto-Phyzer be the difacto government that will transition us to libertarian utopia, just as the bolsheviks made their party the difacto government in Russia.

Last edited by JNathanK on 03 Jul 2012, 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

So you think people that do it now do not exist ??

Its divide and conquer. They're doing to Americans what the colonialists did to Africans, If were busy fighting each other, globalists can rob us blind. I wouldn't be surprised if people start shooting each other over this s**t at some point.



Yah, my friends roomate's 5 and 8 year old kids were espousing a bunch of s**t they heard on fox news, about how liberals are ruining America and how Obama is single handedly making America go to hell. Its probably not going to be too long before Glenn Beck creates a Fox Youth Channel and club to directly indoctrinate kids into neo-conservative rhetoric. I feel like some dark totalitarianism is about to descend upon us out of peoples willing idiocy. That's how it typically happens.