What happens to people after they die?
This is what I've been working out:
If we have a "soul" or a spark of life, then our brains are like its clothing.
It builds (with the help of the natural environment and biological processes) a personality, a body, and a set of memories around itself. But these things are expressions and creations of the soul, and are animated by it during life.
When the body is dead, and no longer able to shield the soul, the pressure of the world propels the soul into another dimension with less pressure, like an air bubble rising to the top of the ocean (except, well...the ocean isn't another dimension than the surface--lol).
The soul is eventually reincarnated and creates a new set of "clothing" and identity. I think it's still possible for the soul to re-create an old personality, depending on the laws of that dimension, or--I guess, be in many places at once. But that's really a bit too complicated for my lack of scientific knowledge.
Tear it apart if you want.
Many other Christians believe that you go to heaven or hell after you die. But the scriptures seem pretty clear that once you die - you're done - there's nothing. Then after several thousands or perhapsp millions or billions of years, All the dead are raised and you go to either a newly reconstructed earth or to a pit of eternal flames. I realize this imagery is likely alligorical but nothing in it supports any notion of a heaven or hell.
Same here, Muslim though.
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I believe that we all know instinctively what natural reality and the human condition is. The answers are built into our physical bodies. The only way we can be wrong about existence and the rules by which it operates is if we deliberately and subconsciously and/or consciously decide to create or accept falsehoods, and/or through confusion which is born out of semantic disharmony with others. Half of the challenge of understanding life and death, in a metaphysical or religious sense, is in receiving a persons summarization of it and being able to find the correlations with ones own innate knowledge after it has been through the process of being disassembled and reassembled via flawed language and interpretation between two or more parties. I suggest that a belief system, in many cases, is a personal construct which is administered primarily by a combination of the ego, the immediate conscious and the human memory, which, as a model can only be fallible and therefore too often inadequate. These models generate dis-correlations where there ought not to be any. Life and death is not a mystery to us because it is everywhere. It is happening around us and inside of us, both microscopically and macroscopically. I propose that the soul/spirit/god particles are physical matter like everything else, albeit very sparse in its quantumatomic composition and that this force is present in all animate and inanimate material. If you do not want to be manipulated then do not automatically take the opposite position to the manipulator. God is everywhere, regardless of what you want to call it.
Thus reducing the concept of God to a meaningless utterance. Anything that explains everything explains nothing.
ruveyn
I believe that we really cannot fully know what happens after death. It is easy to simply say that nothing happens, or that we go to heaven, or become reincarnated, but it seems harder nowadays to admit that we really don't, and possibly can't ever know with certainty. But that is simply my agnostic mind thinking. The only way we really know what happens is after we die, and even that might not answer all the questions. So saying one way or the other with definite reliability must mean that one has the evidence to back up their claim, and I am sure very few people here can back up their claims beyond "no one has disproven my hypothesis." So if you want a definite answer backed up with any sort of reliable evidence, you will probably never find out the truth. I would enjoy an afterlife because I fear death and it's alleged infinite darkness, but I cannot accept that neither an afterlife exists, nor that no afterlife exists.
But reincarnation confuses me, if your soul is reincarnated into another being, where exactly do the extra souls come from in an expanding population? and where would they go in a deflating population? Unless souls can merge together, this simply does not make sense to me. I can show my skepticism with all of the afterlife and non-afterlife beliefs, but I won't bore everyone here with my thoughts.
But I seem to be one of the only people who think this way.
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Thus reducing the concept of God to a meaningless utterance. Anything that explains everything explains nothing.
ruveyn
But doesn't the so called God Particle sort of explain everything?
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Bear in mind that 'no life after death' means no 'infinite darkness' for your (living) awareness to experience. A real 'life after death' might normally mean, as the ancient Greeks believed (vis-a-vis Hades), an experience of 'infinite darkness'.
An old chestnut easily explained by the idea that our minds are not necessarily associated with human bodies. After all, our autistic minds are hardly what most would call fully human despite our clearly human forms; this seems to be true of other allegedly-human beings such as psychopaths on an even deeper level. Therefore, in ancient -as opposed to new-agey- beliefs about reincarnation, we -especially the profoundly 'different'- might well have had recent previous rebirths as aliens, or as inhabitants of a parallel dimension/universe. Even accounting for a loose tie to this planet as it continues (for a few years atleast) to support sentient life, the decline in the numbers of wild (and possibly domesticated) animals might 'make up for' the parallel increase in human numbers.
The emotional need for certainty about the world one aims to survive in dictates that metaphysical arrogance never stays out of fashion for long. Time was when it was considered normal in my country (the UK) to accept the possibility of some kind of 'higher power' or 'continued existence' without defining oneself as a Christian and hating gays etc. etc..
An old chestnut easily explained by the idea that our minds are not necessarily associated with human bodies. After all, our autistic minds are hardly what most would call fully human despite our clearly human forms; this seems to be true of other allegedly-human beings such as psychopaths on an even deeper level. Therefore, in ancient -as opposed to new-agey- beliefs about reincarnation, we -especially the profoundly 'different'- might well have had recent previous rebirths as aliens, or as inhabitants of a parallel dimension/universe. Even accounting for a loose tie to this planet as it continues (for a few years atleast) to support sentient life, the decline in the numbers of wild (and possibly domesticated) animals might 'make up for' the parallel increase in human numbers.
So, the only way to explain reincarnation in the light of an increasing population is to rely on two unproven hypotheses? Parallel universes and alien life? It would make more sense to say that our souls came from the dying tree's during deforestation. It does not make sense in a tangible way to me. In a non-hypothetical way, that is. Because the way you described reincarnation sounds more like Scientology or science fiction than science to me. But I guess that is the difference between beliefs and my inability to accept anything intangible.
But if it makes sense to you, than more power to you. It just makes no sense to me.
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Because everything about who we are - our personality and memories originates from the brain, then when the brain is dead so are the personality and memories. You have only got to see what happens to people who become partly brain-dead or brain-damaged through a stroke to see the profound changes it makes to their personality and memories. Whole brain death = end of personality and memories.
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But doesn't the so called God Particle sort of explain everything?
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
If Leon Lederer had his way, it would have been called the God-Damned Particle. His editor had other ideas.
ruveyn
Really?
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
As I understand it, decomposition starts after consciousness is gone.
I am talking about brain death, not decomposition
I think it is more interesting too. The Christian afterlife sounds awful to me. Especially since it might involve eternal torment, without respite, for offending some jealous bronze age celestial alpha male
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You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do
I think probably nothing, and actually find this rather comforting.
I quite liked Philip Pullman's idea towards the end of the Amber Spyglass of us all becoming some kind of general (but I think) non-sentient consciousness particle of some kind, not sure I believe in it though, but it is interesting to wonder what becomes of consciousness when if fades out of us at death.
If this life is the only version of this consciousness we've got, and I believe it is, it should encourage us to make the best of it, and also to be less accepting of social injustice to others. It is not as if people are going to get it any better next time, there is no next time...although there is the next generation who might get it better or worse than this one.
[To digress a little - also apparently it was the God-Damned Particle because - at the time - it was so God-Damned difficult to find which is why they eventually spent £9billion on the LHC; this is still less the London Olympics has cost and much more useful in the long term IMHO ]
Darkness forever or the big sleep, at least that's what logically seems true. There may be a higher power, and a better place after death, but I don't think you get there by reading a book, praying, going to church, and living life specifically as you're told in books, or by preachers. It would make sense to me if there is a higher power, and a better place after death, you would get there by treating all of this higher powers creations be it humans, animals, nature, ect... with respect and kindness.
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Last edited by Pondering on 19 Jul 2012, 3:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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