Provincial Blocheads

Post Reply New Topic

It wasn't he who made the Hezbollah comment, but the party did distance itself from the member who made it.

Interesting that you bring that party up, I actually am strongly considering voting for it, and have met a few of the candidates through academia years before

This is xenophobic, not reactionary.


Look, this is going nowhere. Let's agree to disagree and move on.

come up with something concrete for me to actually disagree with then maybe I will consider that cop out option. Otherwise it seems to me you are completely blithe to the niceties of the subject and closed minded to political reality. Your attitude is not unknown to me, I see it too often in this province, and it is a problem

The PQ blueneck attitude is very much reactionary, idealizing the past while ignoring the ugly facets of it (a strong-arm Church and the Great Darkness of Duplessis).

I don't remember their referring an idealized. You are trying to interpret what they say to fit it to a specific pejorative word. It doesn't work. Besides, that past is exactly what the PQ wants to avoid, since English was the dominant language then.

Where did you learn all this? Its sad to me that someone of your intellect actually believes this s**t.

Frederick William IV of Prussia was a reactionary. Nicolas I of Russia was a reactionary. There is nothing to "believe". The word just does not apply to the situation. The fact that the PQ does not match all overused, pejorative political labels does not make them any better.

That is in your strange worldview that I can only assume is based entirely upon campaign advertisements and not the actual actions and history of the party. You are quite literally ignoring reality

This has absolutely nothing to do with the campaign. The word doesn't apply. "Reactionary" is one of those words (like "fascist" or "communist") which are almost always misused. If you want to say that the PQ is racist and xenophobic, I won't stop you for reasons of terminology. If you say that they will lead to disaster, I will agree (although I believe that so will the other two parties who want to form a government). Recognizing that the PQ does fit one of the items on the Bad Government Checklist does not make it any better.

Also, stop resorting to personnal attacks and start actually reading what I say, without prejudice.

What personal attack? Recognizing you have a strange and uninformed worldview and are ignorant of the realities of the politics in this province? What does that have to do with your person? If I said you were incapable or implied something about your ability to comprehend then it would be an attack on your person. I have said nothing of the kind

I have more that enough of all this intolerance toward what is a legetimate political movement in Québec. Enough is enough!! ! Sadly I'm not smart enough to win a argumentation here,but... This is not true that all separatists are intolerant bigots, most are really liberal peoples and this is the position of most artists (Which are left wing). The opposition to "accommodement raisonnable" don't only come from a rejection of foreign culture, but also, from many peoples, a rejection of religion extremist seen from some of such culture; a rejection that come from Québec history of the emancipation of the catholic religion. This is the spirit in which is made the secularism charte, and no, no renaming of the religious name on different Québec place as such a task would simply be herculean. Some immigrants are separatists too, you know.

Personnally I am opposed to the conditions of the Québec citizenship, such as to know french to vote, (Though not opposed to a Québec citzenship by itself) but it's only now that such a proposition has been made, and do not represent the integrality of the separatists movement. More likelly it must come from the most extremist fringe of the PQ, a heritage of the RIN. The PQ is a complex partie, with a lot peoples with different opinions, which explain why there is so much fight inside the partie. Some are moderate, other are extremists, that's how it is.

You just called me ignorant there. You say I have a strange worldview -- and how I view the world is a fundamental part of myself. I don't see how it does not register as personnal.

Anyway. I don't intend to continue on this, so let's leave it at that.

The PQ do not idolise the Grande Noirceur at all! They see themselves as progressive and look to the Lesage Equipe de Tonnerre for inspiration and that equipe included Rene Levesque himself as a key member. Jacques Parizeau also worked behind the scenes to make the Revolution tranquille. However, the PQ understand that they have voters, who in the past would have voted for the Union Nationale, who are inclined to xenophobia, and there are others who are progressive but do not identify themselves at all with this transnational cosmopolitanism that essentially exalts certain ethno-religious groups as being more important and that celebrates globalisation. These people offended Bouchard I think more than the outright nativist xenophobes did.

The PQ definitely has a fragility about it which is why being its leader is so difficult, which is why we're seeing a fragmentation again with Option nationale and the slow rise of Quebec solidaire as effectively the pur et dur people have not run things in the PQ since Parizeau. The problem is that a pur et dur party would scare too many people in this environment which is not the post-Meech failure one that helped bring Parizeau into power. One criticism I see some harder line people make of the current leadership that appears to be valid is this idea that though a referendum may be postponed indefinitely, there are other things that can be done to advance sovereignty, preparations so to speak, and there they think is insufficient interest in that. I think it's silly for there to be a referendum when the support isn't there for that.

In my opinion, I'd like to see a more progressive economic policy and that's the main thing for me, and I know that Charest's Liberals will do the opposite, and the CAQ will also do the opposite. In my opinion, the best argument for sovereignty would be if it yields a more progressive and humane economic policy free of many of the really evil influences that I think infest the Anglosphere in particular.

I have two problems with what you're saying here. First, you are intelligent and should not depreciate your own intellect's value. If you have a hard time arguing against something, maybe it is because you have more to learn about it, the situation is more complex than you assume. When you hit a brick wall sometimes it means its time to look for a different answer; there is no point in staying with a position that cannot be defended in an intellectual capacity. You are too smart to do this, don't let your cultural pride blind you to reality.

Second, claiming you have had enough of "intolerance" of this political movement and claiming it is legitimate followed by "I am not smart enough to win this argument" is extremely disturbing to me, though not particularly alien, since I hear this from sovereigntists regularly. If your movement were so legitimate you would have plenty to argue with. Right now you are basically saying "I can't win this argument, but I KNOW I'm right, regardless of whatever you say". This is intellectually irresponsible, lazy and disrespectful to me, since I am making an effort to communicate with you.



The secularism charter is an utter joke and just proves that Marois and her ilk want to control your culture with their own definition of it. What exactly is this "Quebec culture" you guys go on about? It is virtually identical to the rest of Canadian culture with similar differences that provinces tend to have. This "Quebec culture under threat" meme you constantly bring up is literally the exact same as that buffoon Glenn Beck claiming America's "white culture" is under threat. Beck was never able to describe exactly what "white culture" is, and likewise you will not be able to tell me what Quebec culture is. I am so tired of you people acting as if you have a monopoly on love for this province. I love Quebec too, it is my home, you have no right to treat me like I don't live here, that I am a foreigner. Anglos make this place their home- almost a million of us- more than some provinces. You treat us with utter contempt and disrespect, your party makes absolutely no effort to reach a vast demographic, a demographic that has existed for hundreds of years. This is why your party is not legitimate, it is just playing on people's fears and prejudices. There are some immigrants who are separatist, sure. Not many though. Likewise with Anglos. Your separatists make absolutely no attempts to appeal to us, you treat us like outsiders, people who do not belong here. Start acting like a legitimate movement and I will start treating you like one. We have no voice at all, the federal government has abandoned us to your mercy; and you gleefully take away our rights at every turn. It sickens me



The extremists have the loudest voice, the politicians are dishonest bigots- your party is shameful. Pauline Marois is a horrible, horrible person. Please read into her business history and all the money she has lost, the public land she appropriated for her mansion, the racist or blatantly intolerant comments she makes. Happy voting.

[img][800:516]http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/d_vigilans/maroisbitch.jpg[/img]

Not completely true, saying she is not bilingual, in that Marois does speak English; though to call her fluently bilingual would be an insult to bilingualism. She also looks like shes sucking a lemon whenever she speaks it.